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  1. #16
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    I think in a way, she is. She fills a more unique role in the Super-family.

  2. #17
    Tactile Telekinesis stephens2177's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But the concept of a Superboy is older than Supergirl.
    "A" superboy,not the superboy of the last 20 years.teen kaland kon are not the same person,different in plenty of ways.trying to present the two versions as asingular concept is a false attempt,and you know better.

  3. #18
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I'd say the name 'Supergirl' is far, far more iconic than 'Superboy'.

  4. #19
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    "A" superboy,not the superboy of the last 20 years.teen kaland kon are not the same person,different in plenty of ways.trying to present the two versions as asingular concept is a false attempt,and you know better.
    I'm not trying to present them as the same. Young Kal was (and still is) Superboy to me; clone-boy didn't come along until after I had turned 30. And with the New 52 version, the current "Superboy" is definitely an inferior rip-off of his predecessor(s).
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  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I'm not trying to present them as the same. Young Kal was (and still is) Superboy to me; clone-boy didn't come along until after I had turned 30. And with the New 52 version, the current "Superboy" is definitely an inferior rip-off of his predecessor(s).
    That there are all these different versions of Superboy is WHY he's not particularly iconic. If Superboy were iconic then there would be a more definite template for the character.

    DC tried to divorce Supergirl from Clark's cousin Kara, from a second survivor of Krypton who arrives on Earth as a teen instead of a baby, but it didn't stick. Supergirl is today what she was to begin with. Linda Danvers/Mae was an deviation that didn't stick. The original version of Supergirl was iconic enough to stage a come-back.

    While you might always consider Superboy to be a teenage Kal, Kon seems to have stuck for DC. The clone version survived the reboot, he's made into other media like the cartoon and Smallville. Widely varying versions of Superboy keep popping up. DC keeps tinkering with the formula for Superboy. To me that tinkering says he's not particularly iconic. If he were iconic there would be some set baseline. If it turns out that the NuDC Kon has DNA from both Superman and Lex Luthor then I'd say DC has started converging on a formula that works for the character that they won't discard, but Supergirl is more iconic because the formula for what Supergirl should be has been settled on ever since Linda Danvers disappeared into limbo and Kara came back.
    Last edited by Kizmet; 11-14-2012 at 10:46 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    IMO that the title Superboy is identified with both Kon-El and a young Clark Kent makes it much less iconic.

    Sure there have been a number of Robins, but Robin is always Batman's side-kick. Superboy could be Superman as a teen or a clone of Superman who's relationship with Superman is ambiguous. Kon himself has been Superman's clone, a genetically modified human clone who's TTK mimicked Superman's abilities, and a human-Kryptonian hybred clone. It doesn't seem like fans have any strongly fixed notion of what Superboy is supposed to be besides young, male and wearing an S-Shield.


    Supergirl is almost always a younger, female version of Superman, Kal-El's cousin. Sure the Mae/Matrix/Linda Danvers version was different, but DC went back to Kara, Clark's cousin because there is a fixed idea of what Supergirl is supposed to be.
    Superboy was never a “clone of Superman”. He was presented as a “clone of Superman” with a mystery behind his existence just like every one of the Supermen that debuted in “Reign of the Supermen”. His own debut story talked about this fact. That is a big difference. He was the same character from 1993 to 2003 and the identity was set. Then Johns came with his retcon that didn’t make any sense (not a “soft reboot” or whatever nonsense) and changed him completely. Hence the lack of consistency in versions of Superboy.
    Last edited by C-Dot; 11-14-2012 at 11:07 AM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymeric View Post
    Kara has more history and was more of a novel concept when created (literally supermans family). When they made superboy a 50/50 clone of Clark and Lex superboy caught up a bit. Clone of superman and some random dude = mildly interesting, clone of superman and his arch nemesis = fascinating.
    If you read or knew of Superboy before Teen Titans, he was never a "Clone of superman and some random dude". He was a clone that was made into the genetic equivalent of Superman that science could create and had nothing to do with being a "50/50" clone.

    The fact that he had a hit series, two spinoffs, two team books, video game appearance, action figures, and etc. shows that he was not "mildly interesting" to a lot of people either.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But the concept of a Superboy is older than Supergirl.
    If you mean the "adventures of Superman as a boy" concept, then yeah. Even Kesel placed Superboy's story in the "Adventures of Superman" comic because of that tagline from the Superboy book.

  9. #24
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dot View Post
    If you read or knew of Superboy before Teen Titans, he was never a "Clone of superman and some random dude". He was a clone that was made into the genetic equivalent of Superman that science could create and had nothing to do with being a "50/50" clone.

    The fact that he had a hit series, two spinoffs, two team books, video game appearance, action figures, and etc. shows that he was not "mildly interesting" to a lot of people either.
    And yet, young Kal-El had numerous features and his own comic book(s) in the past, as well as cartoons and TV shows, plastic models, etc.

    He also was the starting point for this little-known supergroup, the Legion of Super-Heroes.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    And yet, young Kal-El had numerous features and his own comic book(s) in the past, as well as cartoons and TV shows, plastic models, etc.

    He also was the starting point for this little-known supergroup, the Legion of Super-Heroes.
    True. And the recent Legion of Superheroes cartoon had him there (yeah they couldn't call him Superboy, but it's pretty clear who he is supposed to be). He even showed up in the clone Superboy's book a couple of times and Kon-El knew about Clark's identity because of him.

  11. #26
    Paladin Kurosawa's Avatar
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    Kal-El Superboy is of course more iconic than Supergirl, but Kon-El doesn't even come close. Kon-El's not a bad character, though.
    Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dot View Post
    If you read or knew of Superboy before Teen Titans, he was never a "Clone of superman and some random dude". He was a clone that was made into the genetic equivalent of Superman that science could create and had nothing to do with being a "50/50" clone.

    The fact that he had a hit series, two spinoffs, two team books, video game appearance, action figures, and etc. shows that he was not "mildly interesting" to a lot of people either.
    That's not entirely correct. From the get-go Superboy stated he was a clone of Superman. In Superman Annual 2 where Superboy found out he was not the first attempt to clone Superman; it's specifically said that he is a clone of Superman. Superboy has always been "a" clone of Superman, that fact is irrefutable. But yes, he didn't have Superman's powers so they used science to simulate Superman's powers.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by House of Rao View Post
    That's not entirely correct. From the get-go Superboy stated he was a clone of Superman. In Superman Annual 2 where Superboy found out he was not the first attempt to clone Superman; it's specifically said that he is a clone of Superman. Superboy has always been "a" clone of Superman, that fact is irrefutable. But yes, he didn't have Superman's powers so they used science to simulate Superman's powers.
    Stating that you're something and actually being that something are two different things.

    Superboy was promoting himself as "clone of Superman" because that was what he thought that he was. That did not mean that he was an actual clone of Superman himself or intended to be that way. The whole point of "Reign of the Supermen" was that each of the four Supermen were A: claimed to be or B: personally stated that they were "Superman back from the dead". None of them were. Superboy was a clone based on Superman and modeled after him.

    It was shown that he wasn't all that he claimed from his first appearance in Adventures of Superman #500 to #506 when it was revealed that he wasn't a clone of Superman. It was a mystery with a conclusion. In #501, Lex Luthor, who had nothing to do with Superboy whatsoever, confronted Dr. Carl Packard and inquired about the clone's creation saying "You told me that Superman couldn't be cloned". It was a direct continuation of 1. "World Without A Superman" where you saw why Superman couldn't be directly cloned and B: "Supergirl & Team Luthor #1" when Packard told Lex that Superman could not be cloned way after Lex got Superman's body back from Cadmus. Superboy was revealed to have powers and weaknesses that Superman didn't have, Cyborg Superman outright stated that he wasn't Superman's clone in #503, and #506 gave the full reveal that none of Superman's actual Kryptonian DNA was used in the clone. The whole reason he had tactile telekinesis was because he wasn't Superman's direct clone. And Superboy #0 revealed that he was made genetically similar to a Kryptonian which lead to the discovery of his kryptonite weakness later and other discoveries of what Cadmus did.

    It was Superboy Annual #2, not Superman Annual #2, when he learned about who he was cloned from and that one of the 12 other clones was active. And in that book, he was never stated to be an actual clone of Superman himself in any page whatsoever. All of them came from human cellstock with one was made from mixing simulated Kryptonian DNA and human DNA resulting in a Bizarro Superboy. This book was made long after it was established that Superboy was made using human cellstock completely changed into Superman's genetic equivalent with genetically engineered powers. He wasn't Superman's clone made from Superman, but was Cadmus' successful attempt to recreate Superman when they couldn't clone him. A clone based on Superman. That's very much correct.
    Last edited by C-Dot; 11-16-2012 at 01:15 PM.

  14. #29
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    Would it be off topic to ask exactly what we mean by "iconic" in this thread? The word as used in discussions about comic characters seems to be a bit fluid. I think we mean "easily recognized by people outside of comic fandom" here, correct?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iopy View Post
    Would it be off topic to ask exactly what we mean by "iconic" in this thread? The word as used in discussions about comic characters seems to be a bit fluid. I think we mean "easily recognized by people outside of comic fandom" here, correct?
    It has everything to do with the topic so I don't see how it's not off topic. But yeah....it seems many have their own definition of what "iconic" is.

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