BATGIRL #14 Preview/Discussion

[Liquid?!]

I wonder who Joker's best man will be.

[Morlock50]

Oh the irony, you do realize that in terms of the two characters you were referring to Batwoman II is the FAR newer one? Batgirl the Dominoed Daredoll however has been around since the late 60's.

But yes, the market will decide. It's going to be interesting to check back on this in six years and see the respective sales and how they are continuing to hold up. But as Kate is the only LGBT character with their own book I hope for that reason she can maintain a niche. I guess I wouldn't have a problem with her at all though if her look was derived from Kathy Kane as opposed to such a clear initial borrowing from Bab's closet (referencing that Batwoman's initial look was taken from a proposed look for Batgirl). Heck, she even started out with brown hair, which would have been more original if it had been maintained, IMO.

But back to #14, I'm stymied how this whole wedding scenario is going to play out over the next two issues.

I'm sensing a James/Joker team-up here.

[Bluebow]

Oh the irony, you do realize that in terms of the two characters you were referring to Batwoman II is the FAR newer one? Batgirl the Dominoed Daredoll however has been around since the late 60's.

But yes, the market will decide. It's going to be interesting to check back on this in six years and see the respective sales and how they are continuing to hold up. But as Kate is the only LGBT character with their own book I hope for that reason she can maintain a niche. I guess I wouldn't have a problem with her at all though if her look was derived from Kathy Kane as opposed to such a clear initial borrowing from Bab's closet (referencing that Batwoman's initial look was taken from a proposed look for Batgirl). Heck, she even started out with brown hair, which would have been more original if it had been maintained, IMO.

But back to #14, I'm stymied how this whole wedding scenario is going to play out over the next two issues.

No irony involved, that was my point, Barbara Gordon should not lose out to a character that is largely derived from her down to the shade of her hair. I would say that Kate Kane is partly Barbara Gordon, partly Batman and a little Lois Lane.

[batGRRRl4ever]

I would agree that Kate/Batwoman is basically a 50/50% amalgam in personality as well as background of Barbara/Batgirl & Bruce/Batman, which seems needlessly redundant to me. The lesbian angle is the only original slant she has, IMHO.

[Bluebow]

I would agree that Kate/Batwoman is basically a 50/50% amalgam in personality of Barbara/Batgirl & Bruce/Batman.

With a little Lois Lane as I said. A convenient father in the military to provide her toys and a close female relation to provide plot points or act as a damsel in distress and a strong sense of her own worth.

[Bluebow]

Jacob Kane = 33% General Lane, 33% Commissioner Gordon and 33% Alfred Pennyworth

[Brack360]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If comparing the original historical versions of these characters, Batwoman pre-dates Batgirl by over a decade (1956 vs. 1967). If comparing the current modern versions, Kate Kane pre-dates the current Barbara Batgirl by five years (2006 vs. 2011). Kate Kane is with little debate one of the freshest, most compelling, unique super-hero concepts to grace the DC Universe in ages. The current Barbara, by all account, not only diminishes Kate Kane but bares a much closer resemblance to the Stephanie Brown Batgirl than the original Barbara Gordon Batgirl, in everything from her age to her struggle with self-esteem to having a dysfunctional mother and a super-villain as a family member.

[batGRRRl4ever]

I'm not sure what your getting at either trying to combine the histories of Batwoman I and Batwoman II. They are the same as Helena Wayne and Helena Bertinelli in the fact that you are talking about completely different people. With brunette heterosexual Kathy and (first brown then) redheaded lesbian Kate. Batgirl the Dominoed Daredoll predates KATE Kane by nearly 40 yrs. The Batgirl post-flashpoint is still an ongoing character from the previous universe, merely in a new timeline. She's still been around a LOT longer historically than Batwoman II.

And while I'm happy she's got a title (I always am happy to see LGBT characters in the forefront) it still doesn't change the fact that month by month the Batgirl title keeps getting more and more traction in sales/popularity with the general readership over the Batwoman title. Batwoman's look and 50% of her personality and background story are merely copied off of Barbara's, and that I see as nothing fresh or unique but rather redundant and unoriginal. Not the first time it's happened, IMO, but I guess imitation is the sincerest flattery and all that, for those like Kate that try to partially copy Bab's/Batgirl's formula to success throughout her many decades of existence.

Let's all remember though, these are all just individual opinions and don't really matter, and it's the point of fun to simply have interesting discussion even when posters disagree.

[Morlock50]

I'm not sure what your getting at either trying to combine the histories of Batwoman I and Batwoman II. They are the same as Helena Wayne and Helena Bertinelli in the fact that you are talking about completely different people. With brunette heterosexual Kathy and (first brown then) redheaded lesbian Kate. Batgirl the Dominoed Daredoll predates KATE Kane by nearly 40 yrs. The Batgirl post-flashpoint is still an ongoing character from the previous universe, merely in a new timeline. She's still been around a LOT longer historically than Batwoman II.


And while I'm happy she's got a title (I always am happy to see LGBT characters in the forefront) it still doesn't change the fact that month by month the Batgirl title keeps getting more and more traction in sales/popularity with the general readership over the Batwoman title. Batwoman's look and 50% of her personality and background story are merely copied off of Barbara's, and that I see as nothing fresh or unique but rather redundant and unoriginal. Not the first time it's happened, IMO, but I guess imitation is the sincerest flattery and all that, for those like Kate that try to partially copy Bab's/Batgirl's formula to success throughout her many decades of existence.

Let's all remember though, these are all just individual opinions and don't really matter, and it's the point of fun to simply have interesting discussion even when posters disagree.

Too true. And the reality is that Barbara Gordon (as Batgirl or Oracle) has survived multiple writer and artist interpretations. Babs has nothing to prove to anyone in terms of popularity or durability. Batwoman's book took quite a dip in quality when Williams wasn't the artist. And I'm still not convinced that anybody except Rucka can write her effectively. The writing on BW has been flat out boring. I dropped that title months ago, and not even Wonder Woman guest starring has made me want to try it again.