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  1. #91
    Senior Member Shimarenda's Avatar
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    Wow, a lot changes with this issue. Babs knows James Jr. is onto her; she walks out on her roommate; Barbara Sr. loses a finger; Babs tries to keep her rage below the level of grinding someone's broken bones with her foot. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out after the event is over. For example, I can't imagine Alysia is just gone (though there is precedent for a Bat event throwing away months of support character development in a Simone book (see War Games)).
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  2. #92
    The Older Waiter Brave Sir Robbin's Avatar
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    Wow. I have now read it a few times and my first impression is that this was one deeply disturbing turn of events. Joker in the skate rink amidst that horrible scene of death is almost too much. It also gives Simone a challenge that I hope she has adequately planned to handled; how do you balance that? If Babs just saves mom while the loving family is propped up dead in the lobby, you can be left with a feeling of gratuitous killing of innocents for shock value devalued by something as trivial as one life in the middle of that murder zone.

    Also, Babs sees this as a life changing, possibly ending, moment and one that she will not be able to return from, even if alive. She says good bye to her roomie, making sure the cat will be saved, and runs out certain that there is no going back. She sees in her identity compromised that her life as Batgirl is over. I get the feeling that a lot is hanging out there that will be addressed. Simone doesn't typically leave a lot hanging. This is a big jumping point for her in the book. (Although I see one logical way to resolve this. Babs goes to her new buddy Stephanie Brown and says "your turn to be Batgirl." Steph squeals with glee and jumps into the suit ready to fight crime and party at Comic Con with her fans. Joker, thinking that Babs is at it again and thinking that the blond dye he mistakenly believes Babs used must have given her brain damage, why else hanging with that crowd at Comic Con making sandwich jokes that don't make sense, just freaking murders her. Blood, gore, no chance of IDing the body short of DNA testing. Babs takes a new identity giving her safety from Joker and disillusioned Steph fans and becomes the new Batgirl. Not bad, huh?)

    Simone builds on that with Babs' internal struggle with her rage and raw desire for revenge. She isn't quite executing the punks yet, but pulling a mob style pushing on the broken leg for answers does show a willingness to give into her baser instincts. I doubt they taught that in her forensic psychology course.

    Also, James sets up Babs with Joker without Joker knowing so. James knows when Joker's thugs will kick the door in, knows where Joker is, knows his mom is there, and who knows what else. I doubt James' plan is now complete. James' role in all this has a lot more story behind it.

    Also, for Batgrrrl4ever, will Babs ever get a job now?

    So while really gross and morbid (I don't get the comic industry' fascination with dead kids) the comic continues to pack a real punch with the ever evolving Babs, skillful juggling of several different story lines, and keeping us in suspense about the way she is going to pull a paycheck.
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  3. #93
    Senior Member Robotman4's Avatar
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    Wow I almost felt bad for the clown thugs when they busted down the door. Babs was pissed and they were going to get severely injured.

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    What happened to the sandwich? Did the Joker make Babs eat it?
    Quote Originally Posted by ngroove View Post
    Not that big a deal - It's just Joker
    That wasn't Joker.

  5. #95
    Blue Boba ABH-1979's Avatar
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    Read it last night -- it was definitely the best issue of New 52 Batgirl that I've read. That last page is creepy.
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  6. #96
    The Dominoed Daredoll batGRRRl4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robbin View Post
    Joker in the skate rink amidst that horrible scene of death is almost too much. It also gives Simone a challenge that I hope she has adequately planned to handled; how do you balance that? If Babs just saves mom while the loving family is propped up dead in the lobby, you can be left with a feeling of gratuitous killing of innocents for shock value devalued by something as trivial as one life in the middle of that murder zone.
    The overall writers of the bat-books have simply gone too far in depictions of mass death at the Joker's hands. The people of Gotham aren't even Star Trek red shirts anymore, their deaths now have the same level of unimportance as a swallowing of a large mass of krill by a blue whale. There is NOTHING even remotely "funny" about the Joker anymore. Everyone knows that a sea of red death follows him everywhere now, and his character even visually looks like he'd be far more comfortable in the comic of Hellraiser in the cenobite universe than the mere Gotham rogue he used to be.

    So yes, I agree that THAT many deaths, including families and children, at the roller rink simply does not equal out to saving ONE person. For comics it just goes TOO far, DC can do better, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robbin View Post
    Also, James sets up Babs with Joker without Joker knowing so. James knows when Joker's thugs will kick the door in, knows where Joker is, knows his mom is there, and who knows what else. I doubt James' plan is now complete. James' role in all this has a lot more story behind it.
    As I already said, there aren't many villians who could USE the Joker to their own ends, making James Jr. a VERY worthy arch for his sister.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robbin View Post
    Also, for Batgrrrl4ever, will Babs ever get a job now?
    Lol, as I've said before she can't pull SSI/medicaid anymore because she's no longer disabled, and she's also stated she won't take money from her father Jim or Bruce, she's no longer in school so can't pull from school loans, and she's unemployed. So HOW is she even buying food, let alone paying half the rent on a city apartment? It's driving me mildly CRA-CRA....!
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  7. #97
    Don't do the Limbo sunofdarkchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namtab View Post
    Read it last night -- it was definitely the best issue of New 52 Batgirl that I've read. That last page is creepy.
    I have to agree for once. Just on plot alone it's miles better than anything this series has put out since the relaunch. The interesting thing is that this story could have been told without the crossover, which is probably what makes it work. While this Barbara is never going to resemble any of her previous incarnations from the 60s to right before the latest reboot, this could serve as a turning point for the series and the character. Right now I see her going the Tim Drake route of becoming sort of a batman-lite, which is far better than the route to nowhere she was on before. It could still be messed up, but a little optimism doesn't hurt.

    I have to wonder why make a big deal about the sandwich and then just drop it? Why bring up that kind of misogynist imagery if it isn't even going to matter to the plot later on?

  8. #98
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Guess we'll have to wait a few months before we can determine where this fits into the chronology of crossover.

    JJ making her take the time to focus her energies, quell her panic...manipulative and...showing aspects of concern for Barbara Sr?

    JJ being able to track Mistah J's activities while Batman's been stumped...hmm... (perhaps he had a heads-up he was able to take advantage of?)

  9. #99
    Senior Member Ed Sizzers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Allen123 View Post
    Yes he does. Read batman#14
    I'll take your word for it. I don't do the Batman bloke-books.

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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robbin View Post
    Also, Babs sees this as a life changing, possibly ending, moment and one that she will not be able to return from, even if alive. She says good bye to her roomie, making sure the cat will be saved, and runs out certain that there is no going back. She sees in her identity compromised that her life as Batgirl is over.
    I could be wrong, but I read that as the opposite...that her attempt of a normal life as Barbara was what was over, because being Batgirl was too dangerous to other people she let in her life like a room mate. If it was Batgirl she was giving up then there would be no reason to never see or speak to the room mate again. It sounds like yet another rehash of what Barry and Clark decided earlier this year...hopefully without the attempted name change this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    As I already said, there aren't many villians who could USE the Joker to their own ends, making James Jr. a VERY worthy arch for his sister.
    How exactly is he using Joker? He helps Barbara save herself and their mother. I don't really see how this is all a part of some great master plan ...unless Barbara is now supposed to stupidly believe that he has changed, which come on if something similar to Black Mirror is still in continuity she has to pretty freaking dumb if she falls for that over this. Even still I tend to think that he would have preferred to no reveal he knew about Batgirl here as that probably could have been useful later.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    I have to wonder why make a big deal about the sandwich and then just drop it? Why bring up that kind of misogynist imagery if it isn't even going to matter to the plot later on?
    The sandwich was probably to get her to think of something else besides her mother and calm her nerves...although I don't think it worked very well given how she's still so jumpy she points the gun at her room mate when she hears her voice.
    It's a shame that she doesn't make a real sandwich with meat...because then we could have played sandwich psychology.
    http://www.intenseexperiences.com/sa...rsonality.html

    I can't imagine Alysia is just gone (though there is precedent for a Bat event throwing away months of support character development in a Simone book (see War Games)).
    No way is Alysia gone, that would make the plot of James dating her to get to Babs completely irrelevant. Clearly Simone has an endgame which this character and that plot point has to be part of.
    Last edited by Xenith; 11-15-2012 at 10:00 AM.

  11. #101
    Unreasonably Opinionated Conway's Avatar
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    Way better than last month and Batman. I know it's early but so far this is the best book of the entire crossover. Leaving her roommate with a room full of injured thugs was pretty cold though. I'm guessing that is one of those things that will come back and bite her.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimarenda View Post
    Wow, a lot changes with this issue. Babs knows James Jr. is onto her; she walks out on her roommate; Barbara Sr. loses a finger; Babs tries to keep her rage below the level of grinding someone's broken bones with her foot. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out after the event is over. For example, I can't imagine Alysia is just gone (though there is precedent for a Bat event throwing away months of support character development in a Simone book (see War Games)).
    Sweet issue, the great question is how far DC goes with this new Joker?

  13. #103
    Senior Member Ed Sizzers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    Way better than last month and Batman. I know it's early but so far this is the best book of the entire crossover. Leaving her roommate with a room full of injured thugs was pretty cold though. I'm guessing that is one of those things that will come back and bite her.
    In what way?

    "The Tardis, when working properly, is capable of many amazing things. Not unlike myself."

  14. #104
    Unreasonably Opinionated Conway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sizzers View Post
    In what way?
    Either something happens to the roommate and Batgirl has to save her, or the experience causes her to turn evil and Babs will have to stop her in the future. They've invested a lot of ink in the character to just make her disappear crying.

  15. #105
    Don't do the Limbo sunofdarkchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    Either something happens to the roommate and Batgirl has to save her, or the experience causes her to turn evil and Babs will have to stop her in the future. They've invested a lot of ink in the character to just make her disappear crying.
    DC's done that a lot. I can remember one time they spent 5 or 6 whole issues building up one new character and making it clear she was meant to become a tragic recurring villain, going so far as to explicitly give her villain name at the end, and then after those 5 issues she never appeared again.

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