Love this panel:
Diana's arched brow seems like she's saying "Oh yeah?"
And Superman replies "Its true, its true."
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-17-2012 at 08:15 PM.
The real questions are as follows. In the DCU as is...
1. Could Superman and Wonder Woman be happy together?
2. Would there be serious negative consequences because of the relationship?
Personally I think the answer to both is yes.
And I have to say that the idea neither of these characters could go bad to serve a plot is naive in the current comic book climate. Nobody wants to see their character go off the rails, and 10 year ago if you said to a long term Iron Man fan that a story was coming that would turn their hero would turn into a facist they would have looked at you like you were an idiot. The same could be said of Cyclops.
No, these characters are not Superman. But writers like to push the boundaries.
And has been observed frequently long term happiness in comic books seems elusive. Spider-Man and Super-Man both had marriage issues and now their marriages have been made non-issues. And the relatioships almost always end badly. I'm nervous on how that will go.
Another thing I admit I am nervous aobut is that this relationship seems to be going to play out solely in Superman books and the Justice League. It feels a bit like Wonder Woman has been hijacked to serve another character's agenda. Azzarello can write about her loving everyone and he does put in some very good moment for her, but I have no idea what others have in mind - certainly not DC editorial. And there are some compicated scenarions, like the Amazon sex raids, that I think need to be resolved in Diana's own book. Or is this subject just not going to come up between two people who are supposedly forming a deeper connection.
It will be amusing when Diana has to rescue him from all those gods.
Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
The probably I have with Lois and Superman, it makes Supes old fashioned and not realistic(even though supes himself isn't realistic) that he would spend all his life being a Human womans biggest tie to humanity.And through marriage at that, Diana however is more on Clarks concept of a more relateable confidant as far as super people with human like traits go. Lois is just way beyond Superman's realm of perspective, only a fellow demi god could relate to him. Plus I think it would be cruel since Lois will eventually die of old age if they get married and Clark will still be in his prime via wolverine.
So by your own admission you think that Superman and Wonder Woman's relationship works because its basis is non-human things, like the belief that humans and superheroes from an Amazonian or Kryptonian background aren't equals and cannot truly relate or understand each other. You've basically just proven why it would be so powerful for Superman to bond with a human like Lois, and Diana with a human like Steve, for it would be a clear demonstration that they do not see themselves -- their hearts, souls, ideals -- as beyond human comprehension. Pointing out that Lois Lane would age unlike Diana is yet another example, because choosing a mate based on love alone and not on some misguided confidence in the future is more brave and more beautiful. It's the kind of decision humans make everyday because we really can never know if we're going to get injured or die tomorrow. Frankly, Superman and Wonder Woman would do well to remember that they themselves aren't guaranteed immortality either. What you are describing between Superman and Wonder Woman is a relationship based in fear, and that can never be true love.And through marriage at that, Diana however is more on Clarks concept of a more relateable confidant as far as super people with human like traits go. Lois is just way beyond Superman's realm of perspective, only a fellow demi god could relate to him. Plus I think it would be cruel since Lois will eventually die of old age if they get married and Clark will still be in his prime via wolverine.
It's pretty crappy way of looking at heroes who are selfless.
To me, one of the best ways for Superman and Wonder Woman to appreciate humanity and their own humanity is to face what humans face everyday and that's the feeling of powerlessness, vulnerability, fear, and mortality. When they don't, they are not following their hearts and retreating into their superhero life because they're too scared to do otherwise. What happens when they don't follow their hearts, however, is they engage is self-denial and the part of themselves they are denying is the part that naturally loves humans. If they adopt the mindset that humans cannot relate to them and are too fragile to share their lives with them, then they are adopting a belief system that sees themselves as separate and superior. It may not make them evil, but it definitely doesn't make them heroes. Heroes live in hope. Heroes aren't cowards. Heroes would treat humans as equals and want them to join them in the sun; they wouldn't treat humans like children.
To me, heroes who push humans away and a hero like Wonder Woman denying Steve Trevor the opportunity to act in the heroic manner he chose by getting him fired just because she didn't want to grieve him if he ever got hurt because of her is the epitome of selfishness. She didn't want to feel pain or feel guilt. Superman doesn't tell Lois he likes her for no other reason than he fears rejection. He has not expressed any concern for her safety, and why would he? Unlike Diana, Superman has a functioning secret identity. The only reason he'd have to fear Lois getting hurt because of his hero life is if that secret identity was compromised. Yet, if he's denying himself the love he wants out of fear of the remote possibility his secret identity will be discovered then he shouldn't bother with a secret identity at all or have friends at all, since he apparently has so little faith in his secret identity or his ability to handle any threats to it. Superman and Wonder Woman are making their decisions for themselves and others based on fear and on their selfish desire to avoid facing those fears.It's pretty crappy way of looking at heroes who are selfless.
Finally, I believe Steve was rightfully angry at Diana. She treated him like a child by pushing him away from the people and mission he loved for her own selfish peace of mind. I might be mistaken on this, as I've not been reading Wonder Woman, but it occurs to me that Diana is especially worried about hurting men she feels she's attracted because it would mirror the harm her fellow Amazons brought into the lives of men they seduced. If that is the case, then it would show maturity and strength of character for Diana to face this fear -- allow Steve back into her life -- and reconcile who she is with the society in which she was born and raised. Likewise, Superman would do well to face the ghosts of his past with the human Kents and find a new home with humans. His parents, from what we've seen, knew him and his secret and didn't die because of it. They welcomed him into their home, raised, and protected him even though he was different and probably dangerous when he was just developing his powers and learning how to use them. With Lois, he can show that same amount of courage and receive that same amount of love, but he has to be able to bear the possibility -- really inevitability -- that she will someday die just like Martha and Jonathan did.
Last edited by misslane38; 11-18-2012 at 10:56 AM.
I'm honestly just shocked that the SMWW relationship is so popular and and that there are so many users here who seem to be die hard fans. Why is it so popular? Tell me a comic where it was good? The obvious answer is Kingdom Come but while as a whole KC is rather fantastic and SMWW scenes aren't that unbearable, Wonder Woman in it is Superman's sloppy seconds. Superman didn't leave Lois for her, Lois was taken away from him making him go to WW, Diana seems to have bipolar in it and Mark Waid has apologized for the treatment of Diana in it and he prefer Lois Lane with Superman. If you use the Alex Ross to defend the pairing you don't seem to get that Alex Ross is a hypocrite and probably asked for the relationship because he's a Supes fanboy. I honestly can't think of a writer artist pairing that loves Superman that much. You should love the characters you write but Ross is the definition of a fanboy. The next big example is DK2 and I have called DK2 time and time again the greatest comic book ever made and that is because it is so hilariously awful in every possible way so much it becomes a thing of beauty. The relationship between Superman and Wonder Woman was done so that there could be a sex scene that causes an Earthquake and kills loads of people and that Frank Miller hates woman who don't have colorful costumes. If you point to Red Son you deserve a punch in the face (I like Red Son alot but WW was soooooo poorly treated in it).
TL;DR: SMWW sucks.
And your rant is stupid btw. Shows your petty mind set. WW is Superman's sloppy seconds...boy.
Last edited by kylesgirl; 11-18-2012 at 10:31 AM.