Another kiss by WW and Superman

[brettc1]

Men and women are capable of ending a relationship amicably. Why is cheating the only option? Clark and Diana could simply have a conversation one day about how they don't feel the same way about each other anymore; no hard feelings.

First, great posts. Even where I dont agree with everything.

As is the case here. It's difficult to see why anyone would amicably break up with either of these two. It has happened in the past, with Trevor Barnes and Diana, but the chief factor was there seemed to be he didnt feel super enough to handle her adventuring lifestyle. That can hardly be a factor here. People seem to be spending a lot of energy talking about how perfect these two characters are for each other. So again, why would they break up? Because they develop feelings for someone else? Unlikely. Because they find themsevles no longer attracted to each other? Again, seems a remote possibility.

The most likely scenarios seem - universe changes [again] or they come to some sort of crisis, possibly fueled by Diana's current willingness to slit people's throats.

The other problem, which I think I may have mentioned before, is the need then for Diana to date Batman or become a dedicated lesbian. Because frankly no other guy is going to be pscyhologically prepared to fill those big red boots in the bedroom/mountaintop/cloudbank/antarctic/volcano or wherever else writers are likely to show these two doing it. What it would be like for a woman in that situation with Clark I cannot imagine.

No doubt folks will say not all men are as insecure as me. But we are not talking about measuring up against Daniel Craig or Chris Evans here. That would be difficult enough, but how do you compete with a man who can give a woman an orgasm that literally causes earthquakes? Sorry, that is a bit much to ask of someone even as awesome as Steve.

[misslane38]

First, great posts. Even where I dont agree with everything.

Thanks!

As is the case here. It's difficult to see why anyone would amicably break up with either of these two. It has happened in the past, with Trevor Barnes and Diana, but the chief factor was there seemed to be he didnt feel super enough to handle her adventuring lifestyle. That can hardly be a factor here. People seem to be spending a lot of energy talking about how perfect these two characters are for each other. So again, why would they break up? Because they develop feelings for someone else? Unlikely. Because they find themsevles no longer attracted to each other? Again, seems a remote possibility.

It could be something as simple as they don't feel as though they fit into each other's worlds. It could be they both realize there are some personal issues they need to address outside of any relationship before being able to seriously date anyone.

The other problem, which I think I may have mentioned before, is the need then for Diana to date Batman or become a dedicated lesbian. Because frankly no other guy is going to be pscyhologically prepared to fill those big red boots in the bedroom/mountaintop/cloudbank/antarctic/volcano or wherever else writers are likely to show these two doing it. What it would be like for a woman in that situation with Clark I cannot imagine.

I really hope Diana doesn't date anyone else in the Justice League for a very long time. She should have love interests who exist in her universe and her story. She shouldn't be paired up with all the big male superheroes because she's the League's most prominent female member. In terms of being impressed, we're talking about a woman who is impressed by ice cream and heavy metal music. I don't think Diana is so shallow that she's only attracted to men who can impress her the most. Frankly, the last person Diana should date is someone who is easily threatened by that which is superior to him. The beauty of the old (Pre-Crisis) Diana/Steve love story was that it was rooted in the profound idea that a man was secure enough in his own masculinity that he was not threatened by Diana's superior abilities and strength.

No doubt folks will say not all men are as insecure as me.

As a female, I can't speak for men, but I would suspect that most men are insecure in the way you described. Diana should find a man whose lack of insecurity is best explained by his indifference to the existence of men and women better than himself. It would be sad if a man is only capable of overcoming his insecurities by making himself better than the source of his insecurity.

But we are not talking about measuring up against Daniel Craig or Chris Evans here. That would be difficult enough, but how do you compete with a man who can give a woman an orgasm that literally causes earthquakes? Sorry, that is a bit much to ask of someone even as awesome as Steve.

How do you measure up? By realizing that you don't have to measure up. Because, truly, if Diana was choosing her mates based on how much they could impress her with extraordinary feats, then that's terrible. Fortunately, I don't think Diana is like that at all, and thus would be perfectly happy to be with any man who could impress her with his heart, intelligence, humor, and inner-strength.

[brettc1]

Thanks!

You welcome. It is to be hoped the other 37 misslanes out there are as impressive.

It could be something as simple as they don't feel as though they fit into each other's worlds. It could be they both realize there are some personal issues they need to address outside of any relationship before being able to seriously date anyone.

Yeah, we saw this in Action 600. But that was a first date and even Diana admitted afterwards she blew it big time.

I really hope Diana doesn't date anyone else in the Justice League for a very long time. She should have love interests who exist in her universe and her story. She shouldn't be paired up with all the big male superheroes because she's the League's most prominent female member. In terms of being impressed, we're talking about a woman who is impressed by ice cream and heavy metal music. I don't think Diana is so shallow that she's only attracted to men who can impress her the most. Frankly, the last person Diana should date is someone who is easily threatened by that which is superior to him. The beauty of the old (Pre-Crisis) Diana/Steve love story was that it was rooted in the profound idea that a man was secure enough in his own masculinity that he was not threatened by Diana's superior abilities and strength.

True. But here men are strange animals. I have no problem in that regard as far as women are concerned, and can only listen with dismay when I hear girls in year 5 [10 year olds] saying they would downplay their abilities to get a boy to like them [true story]. But when it comes to other men, things are different.

As a female, I can't speak for men, but I would suspect that most men are insecure in the way you described. Diana should find a man whose lack of insecurity is best explained by his indifference to the existence of men and women better than himself.

Not actually a problem for the guy who saved the entire Justice League from being owned by ghosts. But then there is that one thing...

It would be sad if a man is only capable of overcoming his insecurities by making himself better than the source of his insecurity.

Under normal circumstances yes, and its possible to get past that. But we are talking about insecurites powered by the energy of Earth's yellow sun.

How do you measure up? By realizing that you don't have to measure up. Because, truly, if Diana was choosing her mates based on how much they could impress her with extraordinary feats, then that's terrible. Fortunately, I don't think Diana is like that at all, and thus would be perfectly happy to be with any man who could impress her with his heart, intelligence, humor, and inner-strength.

Sure, but I was talking about sex.

Girls will say this doesn't matter, but it matters to us and therefore it matters. Guys want to be good in bed for the partners, especially if they are in love with them.

With a normal human, this can work. You develop a compatablity, I believe [I am a bit out of my depth here because I have only had one partner, who has only had one partner. All glory to the EverQueen]. But now we are talking about a woman who is superhumanly powerful doing it with a guy who can cut loose in a way that she never could would with a 'fragile' human being. And vice versa - Diana does not have to worry about holding back or 'breaking' Clark. The only guy I know of with an ego big enough to deal with that reality wears a cape and a bat on his chest. It might not ever get mentioned in conversation, but the thought will always be there that she had more fun with the guy who cracked the iceberg they were on at the time.

[kylesgirl]

Misslane. You said you never cared much for WW. Yet you said you have problems with the reboot. Are you buying her books? Have you bought all 13 issues? I know Brett here has.

And projecting oneself onto fictional characters is understandable but they are not you.

[misslane38]

Misslane. You said you never cared much for WW. Yet you said you have problems with the reboot. Are you buying her books? Have you bought all 13 issues? I know Brett here has.

I haven't purchased any of the new Wonder Woman books, but I do read reviews of the books from professional reviewers, bloggers, and long-time fans. Most of them are not happy with the changes I mentioned previously (e.g. Zeus is Diana's father and the Amazons). When I said I never cared much for Wonder Woman, I was specifically referring to my interest in her books. I have consistently said that I can see what other people enjoy about the character, and I have said that I appreciate Diana for her heroism, strength, and inspirational qualities. In the past, I have read a selection of Wonder Woman comics, including the most highly recommended ones.

In short, I do not dislike or have any negative feelings associated with the character. I just happen to like Lois more because I've enjoyed the layered complexity of her many live action incarnations, I think she's fun, and most importantly, I love the idea that she changes the world with nothing more than words. Lois isn't a better character than Diana, she's just my favorite of the two. Despite not liking some aspects of Superman in the New 52, he still beats both of them.

And projecting oneself onto fictional characters is understandable but they are not you.

Huh? When have I done this? What are you talking about?

[kylesgirl]

I haven't purchased any of the new Wonder Woman books, but I do read reviews of the books from professional reviewers, bloggers, and long-time fans. Most of them are not happy with the changes I mentioned previously (e.g. Zeus is Diana's father and the Amazons). When I said I never cared much for Wonder Woman, I was specifically referring to my interest in her books. I have consistently said that I can see what other people enjoy about the character, and I have said that I appreciate Diana for her heroism, strength, and inspirational qualities. In the past, I have read a selection of Wonder Woman comics, including the most highly recommended ones.

In short, I do not dislike or have any negative feelings associated with the character. I just happen to like Lois more because I've enjoyed the layered complexity of her many live action incarnations, I think she's fun, and most importantly, I love the idea that she changes the world with nothing more than words. Lois isn't a better character than Diana, she's just my favorite of the two. Despite not liking some aspects of Superman in the New 52, he still beats both of them.



Huh? When have I done this? What are you talking about?

You see I understand your love of Lois and why you might see her as the one for Superman because you get her and that's fine. From what I have seen of your posting on the SM forum you have invested a lot of energy into Lois...more so than anything else. Well, people here love Diana more than Lois. Some of them don't see what you do. It is that simple.

And I don't buy that talking to other people, reading reviews is a fair way of judging something. Everyone these days can blog. There are many people who have no problems with the current storylines as expressed by many here and they are enjoying the new 52. If a story does not go the way you see to or want it it does not make it wrong.

Regarding projecting I would say talking about fictional heroes in context of you going on what you would do or expect is what I mean. The story has just begun. This goes for Brett too.

[Gaelforce]

You see I understand your love of Lois and why you might see her as the one for Superman because you get her and that's fine. From what I have seen of your posting on the SM forum you have invested a lot of energy into Lois...more so than anything else. Well, people here love Diana more than Lois. Some of them don't see what you do. It is that simple.

And I don't buy that talking to other people, reading reviews is a fair way of judging something. Everyone these days can blog. There are many people who have no problems with the current storylines as expressed by many here and they are enjoying the new 52. If a story does not go the way you see to or want it it does not make it wrong.

Regarding projecting I would say talking about fictional heroes in context of you going on what you would do or expect is what I mean. The story has just begun. This goes for Brett too.

Let's keep it to the topic and not about the people posting on the topic, please.

(That's the moderator's polite way of saying 'cut it out' ;) )

[brettc1]

Regarding projecting I would say talking about fictional heroes in context of you going on what you would do or expect is what I mean. The story has just begun. This goes for Brett too.

Have we decided not to talk about the story until its finished?

But...hmmm....dont think like Brett. Think like Steve...

Steve probably would have sex with her, since he is more awesome than I am. Considerably more awesome than Superman.

[dupersuper]

Considerably more awesome than Superman.

[brettc1]

The only reason Superman is alive right now to make moves on Diana is because Steve rescued him and the rest from being the Justice b#tches of a bunch of class 5 full roaming vapors.

[Sacred Knight]

And it was a brave and heroic thing to do. Doesn't make him better than anyone, though. And it certainly doesn't demand Diana's endless fawning and begging for him to take her back, which I'm guessing is the suggestion behind building Steve up by knocking Superman down. If not then I'm confused with the overcompensating on the proclamations of how awesome he is (which I agree, he is, but that stands on its own merits of just how he's written and doesn't necessitate a **** waving contest between him and Superman or any other heroes).

[brettc1]

And it was a brave and heroic thing to do. Doesn't make him better than anyone, though. And it certainly doesn't demand Diana's endless fawning and begging for him to take her back, which I'm guessing is the suggestion behind building Steve up by knocking Superman down. Thankfully that's a tactic the books have not employed in regards to his character.

Superman is awesome. Steve is more awesome...at least since they started writing him more like Tom.

That's my purely subjective opinion. My son Xander thinks the Hulk is the most awesome, even though Thor is standing right there next to him. I can't tell you how many times this debate has ended in the big hulk gloves and my lightning sound uru hammer being brought out and the lounge room laid waste.

[davidgrantlloyd]

Tony Daniel so far IMO

Good point. I forgot about Tony. Shame on me!

[kylesgirl]

Let's keep it to the topic and not about the people posting on the topic, please.

(That's the moderator's polite way of saying 'cut it out' ;) )

Sorreeee. :0

But I do think it unfair to condemn a book one is not reading.

[kylesgirl]

Superman is awesome. Steve is more awesome...at least since they started writing him more like Tom.

That's my purely subjective opinion. My son Xander thinks the Hulk is the most awesome, even though Thor is standing right there next to him. I can't tell you how many times this debate has ended in the big hulk gloves and my lightning sound uru hammer being brought out and the lounge room laid waste.

Sorry, Mr Brett if I offended you.
I see you are a sucker for the normal guy to win the girl. I am a sucker for the abnormal one to do so. Supes has had way more stress than Steve if we look at the way Superman has been treated. Tortured by the government no less. Steve had done some underhanded things behind the League's back. Does Diana know what he has been doing or how he sees her and her allies while he was their liaison? Funny seemed to be when she broke up with him too. I don't like WW or the JL being an instrument of the government.

Hulk AND Thor are equally awesome. :)