'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."
"Announcing YOUNG ROMANCE: A NEW 52 VALENTINE’S DAY SPECIAL
This February, celebrate Valentine’s Day with your favorite DC Comics characters!
Take an exclusive first look at YOUNG ROMANCE: A VALENTINE’S DAY SPECIAL #1 by checking out Kenneth Rocafort’s cover for the issue below. Romance is in the air indeed!
Variant cover also available"
Last edited by brettc1; 11-15-2012 at 06:36 AM.
Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
Clark Kent not becoming a Dick Grayson is what I mean about not whoring out. I want them to have other relations, but not under the pretense of tying to humanity bs.
The variant being Apollo and Midnighter would be cool. I would guess it'll be Batman and Catwoman though.
You have the right to see it and critique it however you want, whenever you want, but we're still at the very beginning of these arcs. Would you really criticize a novel based on how the characters act in the first chapter? Or would you wait until the end of the story to see where these characters eventually end up?
DC: Action Comics - Batman and... - Batman - Justice League
Marvel: All-New X-Factor
What if a child dreamed of becoming something other than what society had intended? What if a child aspired to something greater? Man of Steel
I am not criticizing unwritten and unread arcs, though. I'm criticizing the comments of folks here who don't seem to see anything wrong with Diana's and Clark's behavior thus far. They don't seem to believe there is a need for growth at all.You have the right to see it and critique it however you want, whenever you want, but we're still at the very beginning of these arcs. Would you really criticize a novel based on how the characters act in the first chapter? Or would you wait until the end of the story to see where these characters eventually end up?
No, I'm afraid fans of Superman and Wonder Woman as a couple will not see that there are issues that need to be textually addressed.Are you afraid that these underlying issues won't be addressed?
I know, right? That's essentially what I've been saying for several pages in this thread. Clark needs to grow up and stop being so pathetically afraid before a relationship with Lois has a chance to develop.In fact when he is around Lois he gets a little pathetic.
How so? What contradictions do you see? The biggest contradiction I've noted, by the way, is Diana's characterization in Wonder Woman versus Justice League.The Superman books (the first 12 exceptionally boring and repetitive) have been rather contradictory to what is going on with Action and Justice League.
Actually, no, that's not what I'm seeing at all. In several New 52 books, Clark has clearly indicated he has romantic feelings for Lois.What Misslane sees he has with Lois seems to be based on emotions about on past continuity. Hence her being stuck on the past.
Again, I haven't talked about how Superman used to be much at all.We are in the first chap really of the reboot and all her arguments have been based on how Superman used to be.
I haven't made this argument at all. I've only suggested that because Superman loves and cares for humanity so much, he wants to connect with it. And, therefore, by denying himself those connections out of fear, he is only hurting himself. I've also said that this problem could be remedied if Clark developed a deep connection with an ordinary human who could be Lois or anyone else. I've even said his human connection would be best made while dating Diana, so Clark and Diana as well as readers can determine if their relationship can survive once the alienation that sparked it in the first place fades away.Sorry it bursts the clois fans bubble that Lois is somehow Superman's only reason to care for humanity.
Is it growth you want, or is it Pre-Flashpoint regression you want?
DC: Action Comics - Batman and... - Batman - Justice League
Marvel: All-New X-Factor
And the WW book is cited as one of the best books of the new 52 . You can disagree of course.
I don't want heroes to be perfect, so don't put words in my mouth. I want heroes to be aware of their imperfections and always strive to do better even if that means making mistakes along the way. Heroes, in other words, should seek to address their flaws rather than ignore them. Perfection isn't the goal; it is self-awareness, a sincere desire to change, and the ability to take steps toward change despite setbacks.The flaws as you see them? Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but they'd have to have flaws in the first place in order to overcome them. If you want these heroes to be perfect, then I'm glad you're not getting your way, because that would be boring.
It doesn't matter to me that you are liking and enjoying Clark and Diana together. I find it troubling that it is almost impossible for fans of the pairing to admit that both characters are wrong to limit contact with ordinary humans out of fear and that a mutual sense of alienation and isolation is not the ideal foundation for a relationship. Fans of Superman and Wonder Woman as a couple, in my opinion, should want to see that relationship help both characters find the courage and strength to overcome fear and ultimately to reach out to ordinary humans they distanced themselves from in the first place.So, your issue is with those of us that enjoy what's going on with Clark and Diana? See, I thought your issue was with the writers. But instead, somehow we're all wrong because we like where this is going so far?
I don't understand this comment. Of course I believe Superman and Wonder Woman are flawed in this particular area and thus believe they have room to grow. My issue is with those who do not seem to think there is anything wrong with Clark and Diana limiting the contact they have with humans they care about out of fear.Who said that? If they are as flawed as you think they are, then their is a lot of opportunity for character growth.
I haven't mentioned anything about regression or the Pre-Flashpoint characterizations of either Diana or Clark. As I've stated multiple times now, I want Diana and Clark to overcome the fears they have expressed in the New 52. I want them to be able to reach out to ordinary humans and have deep emotional connections with them because they want those connections. Being connected to humans and having relationships with them are important to Superman and Wonder Woman, but they have denied themselves the chance to fulfill those needs and desires because they are scared.Is it growth you want, or is it Pre-Flashpoint regression you want?
Is it easier for you to just make up my thoughts and opinions than to actually address the real thing? Because I have not said anything close to what you're suggesting. If people like this direction, then that's fine. But, as someone who cares about Superman (not saying you or others do not, by the way), I want him to courageously take the risks necessary to give himself the chance of having the kind of life he wants. Clark wants to be close to humans whether they are friends, co-workers, mentors, or even love interests. He is the one who is frustrated by his own alienation and his inability to have significant relationships with humans. I want his needs addressed. I want his relationship with Diana to help him grow, which could mean staying together or growing apart. I don't care. The essence of a hero's journey, according to Joseph Campbell, is to slay one's dragons -- overcome fear and conflict -- to become a self-actualized leader. Consequently, I don't believe I'm being unreasonable to ask that my need for heroes to be true heroes be addressed regardless of whether or not such a creative direction would be well-liked.No, you're afraid that there will be enough people that like this direction, that your wants and needs won't be addressed.
This keeps getting repeated again and again with absolutely no factual basis to back it up. No one was bothered by the fact that Lois had a boyfriend in the preview. What was offensive was the way in which news about the new boyfriend was released and subsequently promoted. A lot of Lois fans took issue with the fact that Perez seemed to be using Jonathan as way to draw readers' sympathies to Clark. He even went so far as to have Clark remark on his name (e.g. "nice name") because it was the name of his late father, Jonathan Kent. In other words, the problem with Lois' new boyfriend was that he was only there to make Clark feel bad.Wow, talk about judgemental. But then you fans condemned her for having a boyfriend on a preview.
Good writers are capable of developing their protagonist while also developing supporting characters. In many ways, a writer who uses supporting characters well, will better serve their main character.The nasty things being said a year ago was more baffling and you did not even have context to the story. So what else can one expect? Oh and the book is called Superman. Not Lois. It is the writer's job to develop him first.
For my part, I both love and hate Wonder Woman in the New 52. I love Diana's characterization and the creative use of Greek myth, but I hate the dramatic changes in her origins.And the WW book is cited as one of the best books of the new 52 . You can disagree of course.
Last edited by misslane38; 11-15-2012 at 01:12 PM.