New Avengers #32 *Spoilers*

[Greg Anderson]

My guess on the amped power is that Daniel has either made a deal with someone else, or he's stolen the magic of other mystics to do this.

Daniel was the Vodou Houngan Supreme before Jericho took over. Jericho and Daniel together make up the current Brother/Doctor Voodoo moniker. They're able to communicate and make deals with the Vodou Loa and has a ton of other skills. They doesn't seem so powerful due to not being used all these years so a lot of people don't know what they're capable of.

[Dark Phoenix]

I really loved Remender's Voodoo series, short as it was. I think Jericho would have been around longer had it sold.

[Nomads1]

As for the Son of Satan debate, wasn't there a story line exploring that Satan, Satanish, Mephisto and a couple of others are seperate minor aspects of the judeo-christian devil, vieing for control of all of hell (each rules it's own sub-realm)? Or were they minor demons vieing for the title of the big kahuna? Anyway, while the being Son of Satan, I don't think that makes Hellstrom like an opposite to the son of God, though I also really don't think it should be so easy to take him out of the picture, even if temporarily.

Peace

[Prince Of Orphans]

Even before they revealed Hellstroms dad to be Marduk Kurios, I personally never believed that it was the biblical Satan. The hell lords of the MU made it no secret that they occasionally went around identifying themselves as the judeo christian devil. Hellstroms dad, to me at least, just stuck with the act a little longer than most. If there was a main "devil" in the MU, it was always sort of Mephisto.

I think when you consider the character's origin, he was always meant to be the true Satan's son. The same way that Ghost Rider was always meant to have sold his soul to Satan and not originally Mephisto. Whether you believed he was the real Satan's son is redundant, because it was established continuity at the time, of course until it faced a painfully obvious retcon to portray the character as more politically correct.

I really do wish some writer down the line has the balls to re-establish that he is and always was the Son of the real MU's Satan.

As far as Voodoo's mini (started out as an on-going, but they very quickly switched gears) I think he struggled quite a bit. He struggled to the point where some complained he didn't look all that impressive. Personally I'm of the belief that if you ended up getting the better of Dormammu, Dr. Doom, and Nightmare in the span of 5 issues you did pretty darn well regardless of how much you struggled with it. But that's just how comics are... some will complain it was too easy, some will argue it was too hard.

I don't see anyone arguing that it was too hard lol. Taking out those 3 in the span of 5 issues while wielding a power well beyond his experience comes off as way too easy, no matter how much he struggled imo. Not to say it wasn't a good series. I'm sure it was great. Seems very familiar with what Bendis did with the Hood.

He was bumped to the front of the line imo, and I have trouble accepting that. I suppose that's my problem though.

As for the Son of Satan debate, wasn't there a story line exploring that Satan, Satanish, Mephisto and a couple of others are seperate minor aspects of the judeo-christian devil, vieing for control of all of hell (each rules it's own sub-realm)? Or were they minor demons vieing for the title of the big kahuna? Anyway, while the being Son of Satan, I don't think that makes Hellstrom like an opposite to the son of God, though I also really don't think it should be so easy to take him out of the picture, even if temporarily.

Peace

From what I know, Satan rules Hell without question. Guys like Mephisto, Satanish and Dormammu rule sub-realms, and can only ever dream of being at that level. There came a point though where Hellstrom gained control of Hell for a short time, but that was short-lived. His continuity is a disgusting mess though.

You're right about Hellstrom not being the opposite of the Son of God though. It's a common misconception among characters and fans.

[The Imakandi]

Imo Hellstrom being the son of Satan doesn't mean he has more experience than Voodoo, progeny does not equate to experience with Voodoo's lore we know he has been in many escapades which contribute to his experience and knowledge, and he gets a lot of his powers from the gods of voodoo who imo are no less powerful than Satan if power is a concern, his gods are on par with the rest of the mystical beings of marvel, so Voodoo is fully capable of going against Doom and others.

[Prince Of Orphans]

Imo Hellstrom being the son of Satan doesn't mean he has more experience than Voodoo, progeny does not equate to experience with Voodoo's lore we know he has been in many escapades which contribute to his experience and knowledge, and he gets a lot of his powers from the gods of voodoo who imo are no less powerful than Satan if power is a concern, his gods are on par with the rest of the mystical beings of marvel, so Voodoo is fully capable of going against Doom and others.

I don't recall saying his title alone puts him above Voodoo (though you may be referring to someone else with that statement). It just seems to me that the magics Hellstrom associates himself with are at a higher level of power. I don't see many Voodoo Gods causing trouble in the MU, but Hellspawn seem to be everywhere.

And I wouldn't put the Gods of Voodoo anywhere near Satan's level personally, not when guys like Mephisto are still considered lesser beings compared to him. And Gods like Thor don't seem all that powerful in the grand scheme of things. To equate them to that level still wouldn't be saying much.

[Predabot]

I think when you consider the character's origin, he was always meant to be the true Satan's son. The same way that Ghost Rider was always meant to have sold his soul to Satan and not originally Mephisto. Whether you believed he was the real Satan's son is redundant, because it was established continuity at the time, of course until it faced a painfully obvious retcon to portray the character as more politically correct.

I really do wish some writer down the line has the balls to re-establish that he is and always was the Son of the real MU's Satan.



I don't see anyone arguing that it was too hard lol. Taking out those 3 in the span of 5 issues while wielding a power well beyond his experience comes off as way too easy, no matter how much he struggled imo. Not to say it wasn't a good series. I'm sure it was great. Seems very familiar with what Bendis did with the Hood.

He was bumped to the front of the line imo, and I have trouble accepting that. I suppose that's my problem though.




From what I know, Satan rules Hell without question. Guys like Mephisto, Satanish and Dormammu rule sub-realms, and can only ever dream of being at that level. There came a point though where Hellstrom gained control of Hell for a short time, but that was short-lived. His continuity is a disgusting mess though.

You're right about Hellstrom not being the opposite of the Son of God though. It's a common misconception among characters and fans.

You're incorrect. "Satan" doesn't really exist in the MU. All of the different hell-lords rule different realms, yes, but they have all always made claim to the title of "supreme evil".

Their eternal struggle for the name was actually a plot-point in Gillen's JiM recently.

And Hellstrom's father isn't Satan, but merely one of many prime-demons wying for the name, a demon also called Marduk Kurios.

And there are certainly gods at Mephisto or Kurios level. Galactus have shown himself to be somewhat more powerful than Mephisto, and it would appear as if he is somewhat more powerful than Odin himself. But both were shown to be of high enough a level to tangle with the Devourer.

This leads me to believe that Odin and Zeus is up there with Mephisto in power-level. In fact, there have been stories where Odin has made it his mission to beat up on Mephisto/Kurios, and done fairly well for himself.

When you incur the wrath of the All-Father, it matters not if you are called Ymir, Surtur, Nightmare, or Satan himself. Then you shall taste the point of GUNGNIR!

SO BE IT!!

[aNamored]

I think when you consider the character's origin, he was always meant to be the true Satan's son. The same way that Ghost Rider was always meant to have sold his soul to Satan and not originally Mephisto. Whether you believed he was the real Satan's son is redundant, because it was established continuity at the time, of course until it faced a painfully obvious retcon to portray the character as more politically correct.

I really do wish some writer down the line has the balls to re-establish that he is and always was the Son of the real MU's Satan.



I don't see anyone arguing that it was too hard lol. Taking out those 3 in the span of 5 issues while wielding a power well beyond his experience comes off as way too easy, no matter how much he struggled imo. Not to say it wasn't a good series. I'm sure it was great. Seems very familiar with what Bendis did with the Hood.

He was bumped to the front of the line imo, and I have trouble accepting that. I suppose that's my problem though.




From what I know, Satan rules Hell without question. Guys like Mephisto, Satanish and Dormammu rule sub-realms, and can only ever dream of being at that level. There came a point though where Hellstrom gained control of Hell for a short time, but that was short-lived. His continuity is a disgusting mess though.

You're right about Hellstrom not being the opposite of the Son of God though. It's a common misconception among characters and fans.

Yeah, I'd like it if Marvel fixed Hellstrom's lineage, don't call him the Son of Satan if you do not intend to follow through.

[Prince Of Orphans]

You're incorrect. "Satan" doesn't really exist in the MU. All of the different hell-lords rule different realms, yes, but they have all always made claim to the title of "supreme evil".

Nope. Satan very well exists in the MU true to Judeo-Christian theology. And like I said before, the bit with Marduk Kurios being Hellstrom's father had been retconned and went against continuity to begin with anyways.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Lucifer_%28L...28Earth-616%29

Let's see Odin fight that ;)

[jackolover]

Nope. Satan very well exists in the MU true to Judeo-Christian theology. And like I said before, the bit with Marduk Kurios being Hellstrom's father had been retconned and went against continuity to begin with anyways.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Lucifer_%28L...28Earth-616%29

Let's see Odin fight that ;)

In that excerpt Lucifer splits into 666 pieces, and as Ghost Rider kills each one, it strengthens the remainer. Remind you of something that happened recently?

[Prince Of Orphans]

In that excerpt Lucifer splits into 666 pieces, and as Ghost Rider kills each one, it strengthens the remainer. Remind you of something that happened recently?

I was reminded of that Ghost Rider story the second it happened. At least Ghost Rider was able to handle that himself :P

[jackolover]

I was reminded of that Ghost Rider story the second it happened. At least Ghost Rider was able to handle that himself :P

That was a spectacular story ending with that Jumbo Jet getting it's nose cone torn off by GR with his magical chain, just before World War Hulk.

[Clea]

In that excerpt Lucifer splits into 666 pieces, and as Ghost Rider kills each one, it strengthens the remainer. Remind you of something that happened recently?

Why, whatever recent story could you be referring to?

[Prince Of Orphans]

That was a spectacular story ending with that Jumbo Jet getting it's nose cone torn off by GR with his magical chain, just before World War Hulk.

Hahha!! Only Johnny would play chicken with a jumbo jet :P