Superman #17 Cover

[Nocturnus]

Really? Because if it's Rao on the cover of Superman #17, it doesn't look like the red sun god Rao is supposed to be. At least not as much as the one that appeared in Action Comics #887. The Rao in the latter comic wasn't very much like a toy to me (see below; click for big

I'm sorry but those images pales in comparison to Rocaforts scale. Just the way he illustrates the reaching hand, the angles, the movement of it, the focus - puts the whole scale into perspective. It's just how artists do it and Rocafort is just very creative.

[kylesgirl]

Really? Because if it's Rao on the cover of Superman #17, it doesn't look like the red sun god Rao is supposed to be. At least not as much as the one that appeared in Action Comics #887. The Rao in the latter comic wasn't very much like a toy to me (see below; click for bigger).

This image is irrelevant. As is comparing the past with everything present or an artist's or writer's vision of how they see something.

[misslane38]

This image is irrelevant. As is comparing the past with everything present or an artist's or writer's vision of how they see something.

Did you read the discussion? You seem to have a habit of not doing so. If you had you would have noticed that it was someone else who initially made the comparison. I was merely adding my two cents with some visual aids. It seems another failure of reading comprehension on your part has led to you making an irrelevant comment. Next time read before you type.

[Desaad]

Indeed. It makes the Pre-Flashpoint incarnation look like a freakin' toy.

Pre-Flashpoint version WAS a toy, though. That wasn't Rao, just one mad (kryptonian) scientist's attempt to create one out of science and mysticism. Pretty common fictional trope; out of hand I can remember a rogue Controller doing the same thing in the original "Trinity" crossover event from the 90s, building machines that were modeled after the old Maltusian/Oan gods The Triax.

God doesn't exist, think it up. THEN MAKE IT REAL.

Cool concept, lackluster execution, but in no way was that meant to be the real Rao.

[Mr. Holmes]

Yeah like Warren Ellis's Supergod.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I don't know how you subjectively define what is "common," so I can't speak to which version of Rao is too common or which one is epic. Both versions convey a certain "epic" quality: one is imposing as an immense stone-like figure in space while the other is an immense imposing humanoid walking across the Earth. Big red guy vs. big stone guy, space vs. Earth; both have aspects that could be considered common or epic.

Hmmm... Different strokes, then.

When it all comes down to it I don't really care for physical representations of Rao as it is. If what was on this cover was meant to be him I was okay with it, and thought it looked appropriately god like like I said before, but I'll admit I'm much happier knowing its probably this new Oracle.

OK, who is this Oracle guy?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Yeah the Rao in New Krypton was just really stupid. It wasn't even actually Rao. Rao should just remain mysterious. Some more "Kryptonian mythology" would be fine, but keeping Rao as this mythic legend just alluded to.

Could be. There's something really appealing in that approach, yes. As if the writer lets you try to fill in the gaps, but in the end you can't wrap your head around it. Too big and mystic. But then again, this reminds me of Kurt Busiek's idea of using Rao during his run on Superman.

Pre-Flashpoint version WAS a toy, though. That wasn't Rao, just one mad (kryptonian) scientist's attempt to create one out of science and mysticism. Pretty common fictional trope; out of hand I can remember a rogue Controller doing the same thing in the original "Trinity" crossover event from the 90s, building machines that were modeled after the old Maltusian/Oan gods The Triax.

God doesn't exist, think it up. THEN MAKE IT REAL.

Cool concept, lackluster execution, but in no way was that meant to be the real Rao.

I see. I did notice something among those lines in the scans misslane posted, but really didn't pay much attention to it. As you can probably tell, I didn't bother to read New Krypton.

[Desaad]

Could be. There's something really appealing in that approach, yes. As if the writer lets you try to fill in the gaps, but in the end you can't wrap your head around it. Too big and mystic. But then again, this reminds me of Kurt Busiek's idea of using Rao during his run on Superman.



I see. I did notice something among those lines in the scans misslane posted, but really didn't pay much attention to it. As you can probably tell, I didn't bother to read New Krypton.

It had its ups and downs. I really enjoyed a lot of the world building it did, even if it was fundamentally reductivist in regards to the world of Superman, and not at all the direction I would take. But as its own thing, as just a lesson in create a sci fi society, I really quite enjoyed it. For something like the Legion of Super-Heroes, I would have been all over it. Or had it been some other planet upon which Sueprman was stuck, or whatever.

But Krypton, for me, is very much a piece of mythology in Superman's 'universe', and I tend to prefer it when mythology is left fundamentally mysterious. Nothing kills gods like over explanation.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

It had its ups and downs. I really enjoyed a lot of the world building it did, even if it was fundamentally reductivist in regards to the world of Superman, and not at all the direction I would take. But as its own thing, as just a lesson in create a sci fi society, I really quite enjoyed it. For something like the Legion of Super-Heroes, I would have been all over it. Or had it been some other planet upon which Sueprman was stuck, or whatever.

But Krypton, for me, is very much a piece of mythology in Superman's 'universe', and I tend to prefer it when mythology is left fundamentally mysterious. Nothing kills gods like over explanation.

Absolutely true. I too would have liked it to be something other than Krypton-related. I don't know why they had to bring a 100,000 Kryptonians into the picture.

[davidgrantlloyd]

Yeah like Warren Ellis's Supergod.

Good book that btw Black Summer and No Hero were cool too

[Desaad]

Good book that btw Black Summer and No Hero were cool too

Black Summer was good.

Supergod had some nice ideas, but that's all it had. Lifeless execution, nothing plot, zero characterization.

No Hero was an abomination, a complete and total failure (to me!)

[Mr. Holmes]

Yeah that's what I keep hearing about Supergod, which frustrates me, because the concept is soooo good, and I've seen some of the pages online.

I get the impression Ellis was basically just taking the idea Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen to its logical conclusion.

[B. Kuwanger]

Huh. Could've sworn most everyone for some reason wanted more Rao in another thread. I think trying to elaborate is a terrible idea.

[Desaad]

Yeah that's what I keep hearing about Supergod, which frustrates me, because the concept is soooo good, and I've seen some of the pages online.

I get the impression Ellis was basically just taking the idea Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen to its logical conclusion.

That was one element of it, yes, but the concept of that higher level consciousness as filtered through different cultures; what might such an alien mind think when programmed with the fundamental DNA of india, pakistan, china, the US, etc.

Books like these demonstrate why I think there is so much more similarity between he and Hickman than Hickman and Morrison. Unrestrained, it's books like these that we tend to get; low on character, low on plot, heavy on high concept.

[Mr. Holmes]

That sounds even better. I did see somewhere India basically created "Krishna" so that alone gives a pretty good idea of it.