Page 27 of 54 FirstFirst ... 1723242526272829303137 ... LastLast
Results 391 to 405 of 800
  1. #391
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron King View Post
    The breakdowns/finishes can mean a lot of things. I think of it as general shorthand for "the guy who did the inks did more than just inks." Sometimes breakdowns are as simple as the artist laying out the panels and indicated where the major action in each is. Keith Giffen did this for each issue of 52 so that the series would maintain a consistent "rhythm" through its rotating artists.
    That's pretty much how I always understood it too, but then I find it surprising to have a relatively new artist do the breakdowns and nothing else. Isn't it more common to have the experienced artist do the breakdowns and the new guy do the finishing?

    There can be more work involved, though. Stan Lee had Kirby doing breakdowns for the Nick Fury stories in Strange Tales. John Buscema left because he thought he didn't have enough artistic control, which led to Steranko coming on and aping Kirby until he got the series to himself.
    Wasn't Kirby doing breakdowns for a few issues while he transitioned off of X-Men, as well? It seems that Stan was trying to get his signature style on as many books as possible at the time.

  2. #392
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JKCarrier View Post
    Pre-Crisis there weren't really any rules regarding Kryptonian names...writers tended to just throw random syllables together, and even the convention of hyphenated male names wasn't always followed (Vakox, Xadu).
    Thanks for this.

    So I guess this is Byrne trying to create a naming system, here. Too bad that, like many of his attempts to make facets of the Superman mythos more logical, it really doesn't make any more sense than the Pre-Crisis stuff.

  3. #393
    Junior Member Bill Angus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    That's pretty much how I always understood it too, but then I find it surprising to have a relatively new artist do the breakdowns and nothing else. Isn't it more common to have the experienced artist do the breakdowns and the new guy do the finishing?



    Wasn't Kirby doing breakdowns for a few issues while he transitioned off of X-Men, as well? It seems that Stan was trying to get his signature style on as many books as possible at the time.
    Well, it can also work like this.... The penciller does less than they normally would (or less than the editor feels they should have done) to be considered "full" pencils, meaning that much more of the work is being done by the inker - essentially picking up some of the pencilling himself.

    One example of this would be when the Baxter series of Titans launched, and Perez was attempting to pencil both titles (and ink the Baxter one). His credits on Tales, IIRC, were for breakdowns.

    There have also been occasions where a penciller has simplified his style, but because editorial was expecting the work he had previously provided, they give a 'breakdowns' credit instead (I seem to recall Bryne complaining about this later in his career).

    Now, whether that means an adjustment in how everyone is paid is the real question... but I don't know the answer to that one.

  4. #394
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Angus View Post
    Well, it can also work like this.... The penciller does less than they normally would (or less than the editor feels they should have done) to be considered "full" pencils, meaning that much more of the work is being done by the inker - essentially picking up some of the pencilling himself.

    One example of this would be when the Baxter series of Titans launched, and Perez was attempting to pencil both titles (and ink the Baxter one). His credits on Tales, IIRC, were for breakdowns.

    There have also been occasions where a penciller has simplified his style, but because editorial was expecting the work he had previously provided, they give a 'breakdowns' credit instead (I seem to recall Bryne complaining about this later in his career).

    Now, whether that means an adjustment in how everyone is paid is the real question... but I don't know the answer to that one.
    Good points. Certainly Mignola's being new to penciling and still working out his style may have led to the final scenario you've described.

    What surprises me here (and will continue to surprise me until Mignola moves to Dark Horse) is the repeated decision to not allow Mignola to ink his own work. Mignola began as an inker, and his work tends to call for heavy attention to ink. Bryant does a fine job over Mignola's pencils, but if the guy's got strong inking experience, why not let him ink his own stuff?

  5. #395
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Superman #13

    "Toys in the Attic" (Millennium Week 2)
    writer/pencils: John Byrne
    inks: Karl Kesel
    letters: John Costanza
    colors: Tom Ziuko
    editor: Michael Carlin

    grade: B+

    Not a bad issue. It helps that Byrne is finally finding his balance, introducing an absurd throw-back villain like the Toyman with no apologies, but surrounding it with some strong characterization and art. Now that it's abundantly clear that Byrne isn't looking for realism in these comics, it's easier to let go and enjoy the ride so long as everything else holds together well, and it pretty much does this time around.

    Truly, this is some of the best art I've seen Byrne produce for this franchise. The visual trick used in the first panel, as well as more careful attention to detail, layout, pacing, and camera perspectives, really shows here. I'm not sure where Byrne is finally finding the time to put in this level of effort, now that he's penciling two books, co-inking one of them, and writing four, but I'd like to see it continue.

    I also really like his return to long-term plotting that we're starting to see. The last issue reminded us that Captain Sawyers' daughter is still missing, and this one subtly introduced the problem with Lex Luthor's hand, with Superman conveniently reflecting on the Kryptonite ring a page later. I really respect long term plotting and am glad to see Byrne giving it some attention again. He may still be having fun with ridiculous concepts in this issue, but he's taking the book more seriously all the same, and it shows.

    Finally, I often feel that Byrne really hasn't given enough characterization to Clark/Superman and, when he does, it's often disastrous, but damn if I didn't adore this little exchange between Superman and Lex Luthor:

    Luthor: ...For as long as we've known each other I've been trying to destroy you, Superman. Do you expect me to believe you would charge to my rescue when, by simple inaction, you could eliminate me?

    Superman: Why not, Lex? It's just further proof that I'm a better man than you.


    Superman's smug facial expression, followed by a "tha-a-ank you!" as he tricks Luthor into hurling the very object he wants at him, was similarly priceless.

    Of course this issue still had its share of problems, but its some of the best work I've seen from Byrne on this run yet, and the teacher in me just has to give him credit for improvement.


    Important details:

    - Once again, Carlin fails to make any editorial notes when events from other comics are referenced, but I assume from what's explained on page #8 that this is the Toyman's second post-Crisis appearance and that he first appeared in an issue of the New Guardians.

    - Luthor's invention of the Lex Wing "founded [his] financial empire." Does that mean it was his first big invention or merely the one that provided him with the funds to start building his empire? We already know from Adventures of Superman #425 that Luthor first came to prominence in the mid 1970s.

    - Apparently, the imposter Booster Gold in Action #594 was a robotic double created by Luthor with the Kryptonite from his ring inside of it.


    Minor details:

    - How did Captain Sawyers summon Superman? Does she have a regular way of doing this?

    - So the Toyman's very problem is that his toys are outdated, yet he's creating ultra sophisticated toys with mico-technology that would have sold off the shelves in stores. Flying action figures, fully automated parachuting army men? Seems like the kind of work only a toymaker on the cutting edge of both trends and technology could ever hope to accomplish.

    - Additionally, where's he getting all those plastic explosives from? In fact, how is he producing any of these toys? Designing them and actually building them are two entirely different things. But I suppose I should just shut up and enjoy the ludicrous premise.

    - Was the Toyman always British? There wasn't much of a toy industry in Britain in the 1970s and 1980s, so this would seem like an otherwise unusual choice.

    - If the Toyman is only seeking revenge against those who wronged him, what was his beef with three armored trucks? Did he neglect to mention that he also seeks harm against anyone who stands in the way of him funding his little revenge organization?

    - When Superman looks at the superhero action figures and remarks "Nobody I recognize..." one closely resembles Iron Man. Not sure if the green guy in the front is supposed to be an established Marvel character as well.

    - Why is it "dumb luck" that Clark didn't have his costume on under his shirt? It had already been established in an earlier issue (I'll have to do some searching to determine which) that Clark keeps his costume in one of his pant legs and does not wear it under his clothes in the Post-Crisis. I know that Superman #5 reiterated this point.


    plot synopsis in one long sentence:

    A toy tank blows up the third armored truck in a month, Superman is summoned by Captain Sawyers to learn the Toyman's back story and that he's being sought in Metropolis by the British MI-7 and may be seeking revenge against Luthor, Superman saves Luthor once, is attacked by the Toyman's flying action figures, and gets to the Toyman's secret hideout only to discover he's been kidnapped, we learn he was kidnapped by the Manhunters (another Millennium tie-in), and the Lana Lang Manhunter goes to the Daily Planet, threatening to expose Clark as Superman if he doesn't work to create public sentiment against the Guardians and bury news about the Manhunters, Clark refuses, Lana tries to expose him and fails, begins to doubt herself, and then flees, leaving Clark to wonder if it was really Lana Lang after all.
    Last edited by shaxper; 02-20-2013 at 12:39 PM.

  6. #396
    Senior Member foxley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    1,596

    Default

    The thing I always remember about this issue is that the two British agents who come to warn Superman about the Toyman are Steed and Mrs Peel from The Avengers TV series.

    And I think this the first time Toyman is described as being British.
    Last edited by foxley; 02-20-2013 at 12:46 PM.

  7. #397
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by foxley View Post
    The thing I always remember about this issue is that the two British agents who come to warn Superman about the Toyman are Steed and Mrs Peel from The Avengers TV series.
    I'd wondered about that and figured I was wrong

  8. #398
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    30,892

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    Not sure what you mean, here.
    That the annual takes place in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    You know, at some point, you're just going to have to agree to disagree with me. I absolutely welcome contributions and constructive feedback, but it certainly seems as though all your posts in this thread seek to do is point out some way in which you believe I am wrong. It's getting a bit old. I have no problem being shown when I have made an error, but you seem to be calling me out on the carpet for everything, and I don't feel the need to spend the bulk of my free time each day appeasing you.

    If I've made an error, enlighten me.
    If you don't like my opinion once or twice, feel free to disagree.
    If you never like my opinion, move on.
    That was not my intention, no need to get defensive. I've agreed with you plenty, but - as I'm agreeing with you in those cases - there's not much for me to post about it. Would you like a string of "QFT" posts between my actual comments?

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    - Once again, Carlin fails to make any editorial notes when events from other comics are referenced, but I assume from what's explained on page #8 that this is the Toyman's second post-Crisis appearance and that he first appeared in an issue of the New Guardians.
    He did? Which issue? Didn't New Guardians start after the cross-over this was a part of, or was there another title by that name?

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    - How did Captain Sawyers summon Superman? Does she have a regular way of doing this?
    It's implied that she does in an issue or 2 when she borrows Jimmys watch to signal Superman to help find her daughter (saying she didn't go through official channels because it was personal).

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    - Why is it "dumb luck" that Clark didn't have his costume on under his shirt? It had already been established in an earlier issue (I'll have to do some searching to determine which) that Clark keeps his costume in one of his pant legs and does not wear it under his clothes in the Post-Crisis. I know that Superman #5 reiterated this point.
    We'll see him keeping his suit under his clothes more and more (have to have the classic shirt-rip-open moments, after all). If I recall correctly the pant leg thing is forgotten pretty quickly.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  9. #399
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    That was not my intention, no need to get defensive. I've agreed with you plenty, but - as I'm agreeing with you in those cases - there's not much for me to post about it. Would you like a string of "QFT" posts between my actual comments?
    Actually, if you do a search of something like the last 10 posts you've made in this thread, each one has either called into question a factual assertion I've made or indicated that you felt my opinion was off base. You'll notice I don't get defensive when anyone else disagrees with me. It's both the regularity with which you do it and the complete absence of any agreement in any of your posts. No, "I agree with this part, but...". It's really an issue of courtesy. And if you weren't aware it was coming off this way, well now you are. Thanks for clarifying that it wasn't your intention.


    He did? Which issue? Didn't New Guardians start after the cross-over this was a part of, or was there another title by that name?
    That's where I'm stuck. I've never read New Guardians, and all the internet resources I've checked show Superman #13 as Toyman;s first appearance, but then why the mention (twice) of having first been pursued by Godiva "of the Global Guardians"? Surely, this either occurred in some other title or was intended for a later storyline.

    It's implied that she does in an issue or 2 when she borrows Jimmys watch to signal Superman to help find her daughter (saying she didn't go through official channels because it was personal).
    I assume that's coming up in the next few issues.


    We'll see him keeping his suit under his clothes more and more (have to have the classic shirt-rip-open moments, after all). If I recall correctly the pant leg thing is forgotten pretty quickly.
    I'm already seeing that in Adventures #436 (which I'm about to review). In that case, it does make the "dumb luck" in that story pretty absurd. It always irks me when characters are saved by random unlikely chance.

  10. #400
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Adventures of Superman #436

    "Junk" (Millennium Week 3)
    pencils: Jerry Ordway
    inks: John Beatty
    letters: Albert DeGuzman
    colors: Tony Tollins
    editor: Michael Carlin
    "And welcome aboard to John Byrne: Scripter, Byrne/Ordway: Plotters"

    grade: B+


    The excessive "welcome aboard" to the guy who was already controlling three out of four monthly Superman publications prior to joining this one aside, Byrne impressed me again with this issue. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure John Beatty's insanely awesome inking helped quite a bit, but this is yet another issue in which Byrne puts some real effort into his work, and it shows.

    For one thing, I give him credit for constructing a truly compelling subplot to Millennium that works so well as a self-contained arc across the Superman titles. You get just enough info to understand the Millennium storyline if you haven't been reading it, and unlike the waste of a tie-in arc that Byrne created for Legends, this one is truly captivating and definitively tied into the Post-Crisis Superman continuity in a meaningful way. This is no obligatory tie-in.

    In fact, much of this issue feels like a fun game of "How much of Man of Steel #1 do you remember?" as several facets of that origin story become complicated by new additions and twists Byrne creates here. It's an interesting choice considering how much back story Byrne is already planning to fill in via World of Krypton, World of Smallville, and World of Metropolis over the next eleven months. It also feels similar in spirit to Superman #12, which inserted new details into Superman's back story, seemingly just to show that Byrne is paying at least as much attention to his and Helfer's continuity as I've been. Just as with Superman #12, the additions feel a bit needless, but they fit, and they don't really ruin anything with their addition. Of course, after Millennium concludes and its importance fades, I'm sure these additions to Superman's origin will be quickly forgotten.

    As another minor detail, I frequently accuse Byrne of gently stealing from his colleagues -- especially those working on other Superman titles. In this case, much of this issue feels borrowed from Jim Starlin's outstanding story in Adventures of Superman Annual #1, in which an entire town is captured and held in suspension underground by an alien invader. The details are different, but so much of the tone, both with Superman walking through a small town that has somehow been thoroughly disrupted by an anonymous alien force, and the disturbing revelation of the townsfolks' underground captivity, feel exactly the same.


    Important Details:

    - Dupersuper called it. Clark is now inexplicably back to wearing his uniform under his civilian clothing.

    - Like the rest of his abilities, Clark's invulnerability did not surface immediately in life. He broke his arm when he was four.

    - "Zeta waves" can disrupt Superman's neural activity enough to inhibit the use of his powers.

    - The Manhunters attempted to abduct Clark while he was in his rocket heading to Earth, but members of the Green Lantern Corps stopped them.

    - In an attempt to keep humans from interfering with Clark, The Manhunters caused the blizzard that occurred right after Clark's arrival on Earth, inadvertently providing the Kents with a cover story that Clark was theirs and that they could not call a doctor because of the storm. Of course, this raises the question of why the Manhunters kept the blizzard going for five months when the Kents had clearly already found Clark and ruined him with "the taint of human love and emotion."

    - Within hours of the Kents discovering Clark, the Manhunters replaced Dr. Whitney with their own agent who then inserted an implant into the minds of every child born in Smallville after that point so that they could serve as sleeper agents for the Manhunters.



    Minor Details:

    - What's up with the title of this story?

    - On page 3, we see a statue of (presumably) the founder of Smallville. His first name is blocked, but his last name is Small. Is this a character we'll be seeing in World of Smallville, or is it just a random background detail?

    - Second appearance of Pete Ross in Post-Crisis continuity. I ignored his first appearance (well, actually, it was his "pocket universe" counterpart in Action Comics #591), but unlike another male friend of Clark's from Smallville who appeared only once in Adventures #429 and never showed up again, Pete's second appearance suggests to me that Byrne plans to keep using the character.

    - Byrne goes out of the way to remind us that Clark was born in a Kryptonian Gestation Matrix. This would suggest to me that he is not trying to undo his depiction of Krypton in MoS #1 (as I had speculated he might be doing in my review of World of Krypton #1). His intentionally reminding us of this scene suggests, then, that the Kryptonian culture we saw in WoK #1 will eventually transform into the culture we glimpsed briefly in MoS #1.

    - Still not clear on the ultimate goal of the Smallville Manhunters? Just to create sleeper agents in case they were ever needed on Earth? Seems like a pretty underwhelming B plan after giving up so quickly on attempting to abduct a young Superman just because he experienced "the taint of human love and emotion". Couldn't they zeta wave those memories out of him or something?

    - If everyone in Smallville now knows Clark Kent is Superman, how is that going to get undone?


    Plot synopsis in one long sentence:

    Continuing from the events of Superman #13, Superman pursues Lana Lang back to Smallville, comes to the realization that everyone in Smallville is working against him, is abducted, learns from Dr. Whitney (the lead Manhunter agent in Smallville) that the Manhunters have been pursuing him since he first came to Earth and turned everyone in Smallville younger than he is into sleeper agents, Superman realizes that though his powers are inhibited, he can still use his other abilities, including X-Ray vision, which allows him to see that all the older inhabitants of Smallville are being kept in suspended animation, so he uses his flight power to make the entire Manhunter spacecraft weightless, tricking them into thinking the engines are misfiring and therefore into cutting the power, this causes Superman's strength inhibitors to go off-line, he lunges toward Dr. Whitney, Dr. Whitney self-destructs (he was a robot double all along), and Superman notices some new problem off panel that makes him say "...oh no...oh, no, no, no, no, no..."

    (To be continued in Action Comics #596)

  11. #401
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    That's where I'm stuck. I've never read New Guardians, and all the internet resources I've checked show Superman #13 as Toyman;s first appearance, but then why the mention (twice) of having first been pursued by Godiva "of the Global Guardians"? Surely, this either occurred in some other title or was intended for a later storyline.
    So apparently the Global Guardians are not synonymous with the New Guardians. My mistake. Still doesn't really answer the question, but I thought I'd fact check myself here.

    Global Guardians, New Guardians, Guardians of the Universe, Manhattan Guardian -- Wow. DC really likes the name "Guardian," and it's confusing the heck out of me.
    Last edited by shaxper; 02-20-2013 at 08:19 PM.

  12. #402
    I love the 80s! spoon_jenkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,251

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    That's where I'm stuck. I've never read New Guardians, and all the internet resources I've checked show Superman #13 as Toyman;s first appearance, but then why the mention (twice) of having first been pursued by Godiva "of the Global Guardians"? Surely, this either occurred in some other title or was intended for a later storyline.
    The Global Guardians are a different group. They were an international group of heroes that first appeared in the Super Friends comic book (which I've never actually read). Their biggest legacy is probably that Fire and Ice were members before they joined Justice League International.
    "I don't care if they have definite connections to the boy scouts. They have Weapon X - I want him back. We spent a lot of money and resources developing and training him - not to mention your group as well - I won't see it thrown away."
    - Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, April 1979

    Unfortunately, Wolverine escaped to the U.S. with the X-Men. Soon after this stunning debacle, Trudeau's Liberal Party would go down to defeat in the May 1979 election.

  13. #403
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spoon_jenkins View Post
    The Global Guardians are a different group. They were an international group of heroes that first appeared in the Super Friends comic book (which I've never actually read). Their biggest legacy is probably that Fire and Ice were members before they joined Justice League International.
    Yup. Thanks for the head's up.

  14. #404
    Senior Member foxley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    1,596

    Default

    There is no story where Toyman fought Godiva. This was a just a detail inserted create the impression of a bigger world, and that superheroes are not just a American phenomenon.

  15. #405
    S.P.E.C.T.R.E. destro's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    doomstadt
    Posts
    1,844

    Default

    I'll have to go back and look at these Millennium tie ins. I have such bad memories of that crossover I think I have blocked out anything good that could have happened during it.

    I don't know if you're aware of this Shaxper, but most of the books during Millennium tried to pull off a big reveal about someone close to the hero having actually been a Manhunter sleeper agent. In one particular case it was the hero's FATHER....some truly dire stuff. It really disrupted a lot of the books in a bad way, and in most if not all cases the so called big reveal was never referred to again.
    Life looks better in black and white.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •