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  1. #301
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    I love that you guys love "angry shaxper." I was expecting to be heartily rebuked!

    Chad: I think your logic is right on.

  2. #302
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Adventures of Superman #432

    "Gangwar, Part One: From the Streets, To the Streets"
    writer: Marv Wolfman
    pencils: Jerry Ordway
    inks: P Craig Russell
    letters: Albert De Guzman
    colors: Tony Tollin
    editor: Mike Carlin

    grade: A-

    Hmmmm. Again, no Andy Helfer. He was on the previous issue of Superman, but not the annual. Is he gone for good?

    Anyway, this is finally the Wolfman story I've been waiting for. Seems like he's going to end his tenure on Adventures with a bang if the remainder of the Gangwar storyline proves as good as this first installment.

    First off, I really enjoy the character-building at work, here:

    -Lois is now firmly established as wearing a cold facade and having a bleeding heart on the inside

    - Jose Delgado (who first appeared in Adventures #428) returns as a regular guy with the heart and courage of a superhero -- a perfect "other man" for Lois to fall for in that they make sense as a couple and you can't help but like the guy (perhaps even moreso since the fact that he lacks Superman's powers makes his actions all the more courageous).

    - Lex Luthor. Wolfman FINALLY gets to write his own damned character, and boy does the depiction soar. He writes Luthor with perfect subtlety and grace -- a true mastermind. Most importantly, he exposes most of Luthor's motives through subtle cues as opposed to outright stating them (especially the zoom-in on the newspaper headline giving Superman good press for aiding criminal youth while Luthor explains his supposed motives for launching a program to do the same).

    Really the only character who still isn't working here is Jerry White. Yes, I know the big surprise that is being planned that will better explain Jerry's troubled relationship with Perry and all that jazz, but I still think the kid is a one-dimensional whiner. He really turns me off.

    Important details:

    - Metropolis is "miles" long. That's quite a large city!

    Minor details:

    - I really like Wolfman's continued attempts to place his stories within the same continuity as Byrne's, explaining that Superman was just coming from finishing up with The Joker (this month's issue of Superman).

    - Wolfman seems to be treating Delgado's "guidance counselor" title as more of a nickname than anything as he clearly depicts Delgado as a teacher in this issue.

    - Luthor's plan to raise an army of well trained inner city thugs here seems unrelated to "Project Overload" that he just hinted at in Superman #9.

    - Ordway's art is getting stronger, especially that panel on page 11. And seriously, getting P Craig Russell to ink the book -- wow!



    Plot synopsis in one long sentence:

    Lois and Jimmy are near a tenement in Suicide Slum that is on fire (though we never find out why), Lois goes in to rescue children inside, a mysterious stranger who was apparently Jose Delgado goes in as well and rushes off before Lois can identify him, Luthor launches a new program to help inner city kids that's secretly designed to recruit them as a private army (it's also implied that he started the fire at the beginning of the issue), Jerry White rejoins his gang and then vanishes, Lois and Delgado are becoming romantically interested in one another, Delgado is trying to find out what happened to Jerry White as well as who's behind the soldier recruiting thing, he and Lois are attacked by thugs trying to silence them on Luthor's behalf, and Superman rescues them and figures out that Luthor is behind this, though he is unable to prove it.
    Last edited by shaxper; 01-31-2013 at 02:02 PM.

  3. #303
    Senior Member foxley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by destro View Post
    Yeah my main problem with this issue is the idea of Joker even being capable of building a Superman robot. Building some sort of ridiculously complicated death trap? Yeah that's cool. But Joker isn't a scientist!
    At the risk of sounding uber-geeky, the much later Batman Family mini-series established that there is a villain in Gotham City called the Technician who supplies high-tech gizmos to Gotham's underworld. If you wanted, you could assume that he acquired the Superman robot off of him.

  4. #304
    I love the 80s! spoon_jenkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post
    I really liked the "indecent proposal" story.
    Me too. It's actually one of the comics short stories that I really like.
    "I don't care if they have definite connections to the boy scouts. They have Weapon X - I want him back. We spent a lot of money and resources developing and training him - not to mention your group as well - I won't see it thrown away."
    - Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, April 1979

    Unfortunately, Wolverine escaped to the U.S. with the X-Men. Soon after this stunning debacle, Trudeau's Liberal Party would go down to defeat in the May 1979 election.

  5. #305
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    1. You conceited little sh*t:

    So the basic premise is that the Joker, Batman's most dangerous and popular villain, comes to Metropolis to test out Superman's skills, only to discover Superman can stop him faster and more efficiently than Batman. So the entire point was to borrow Batman's best villain in order to make Superman look like a better hero than Batman in comparison???
    Well, I generally don't see Joker believably giving Superman much trouble (though there was yesterdays Injustice #1...)

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    3. Pay attention to your own damn rules:

    We've been told, over and over, that this Superman is depowered, and we've seen him nearly get killed from super-powered punches, electrical shocks, and giant tanks, yet he's still standing after being at ground zero of a thermonuclear detonation???
    Well..hurt =/= almost killed...

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    - There's absolutely no lead in any buildings in Metropolis, allowing Superman to easily spot the three lead coffins in contrast? How about even a little lead based paint???
    It is supposed to be the "city of tomorrow"...

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    - Why in the world would the Joker know that Perry White and Jimmy Olsen are important to Superman?
    Years of the Daily Planet getting unfettered Superman exclusives...?

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    - Toby Raynes, a rival reporter from the Metropolis Star (nice reference to early Pre-Crisis continuity) makes her first appearance here. Will she or the Star be mentioned ever again?
    SPOILERS:
    Yup: she and Maggie are living together.

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    Yeah, every copy of this issue needs to be tracked down and burnt to a crisp.
    Please sir, don't burn my Superman comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by destro View Post
    A lot of people like the waitress story
    I'd have to include myself in that group.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  6. #306
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Action Comics #592

    "...A Walk on the Darkside!"
    writer/pencils: John Byrne
    inks: John Byrne & Keith Williams
    letters: John Costanza
    colors: Tom Ziuko
    editors: Michael Carlin & Andrew Helfer

    grade: F-

    Well, at least this issue was better than the last one. I mean, it's not like Byrne decided to piss all over other people's DC properties once again for his own sick sense of amusement.

    Oh wait. He did.

    You see, in this issue, Byrne attempts to do a loving homage to Jack Kirby. He not only makes Big Barda a key character in this issue, but (as he had no trouble touting in the teaser provided in the previous issue) he has been practicing drawing Barda like Kirby, and it really does work. It's impressive.

    And then he pisses all over the character.

    Let's be clear. Big Barda gets repeatedly RAPED in this issue.

    Yes, one of comicdom's strongest female characters.

    Yes, by a nobody villain Byrne first introduces in this issue.

    Yes, not even in her own (or at least Mr. Miracle's) title.

    Yes, and without any concern for how this affects her as a character.

    Truly, this seems to have been done without an ounce of thought, and certainly without an ounce of respect for the character or her fans. I'm truly outraged by this. I can't even begin to imagine what Byrne is going to do in the infamous issue #593 to top this (and I'm afraid to try).

    This man needs to be beaten...badly.


    Important details:

    -First appearance and origin of Sleez

    - Metropolis has a population of approximately 10 million

    - Suicide Slum has a population of approximately 5,000.


    Minor Details:

    - Andy Helfer is back once again. What's going on with that?

    - Clark indicates that he tried to clean up Suicide Slum when he first got to Metropolis, but in what capacity? He wasn't yet Superman, and he wasn't yet a reporter.

    - What the heck is the point of the doctor showing him the clinic other than to get Clark to his next plot point of wondering about why those old people aren't dying? It seems like the doctor is trying to get Clark to write a human-interest piece about the turmoil of Suicide Slum, but he shows Clark two beds, explains the aging mystery, and then happily says goodbye to Clark.

    - The title of this story is quite misleading, as Darkseid's only role is a brief cameo in Sleez's flashback.

    - Of course, any good slum has a black pimp in a trenchcoat, fedora, and sunglasses, featured prominently while threatening to slice a prostitute in broad daylight in front of everyone.

    - Barda wouldn't notice a two bit thug sneaking up behind her to snatch her purse?

    - How convenient the thug just happened to run into a renegade from the same planet from the far reaches of space that Barda came from.

    - Hmmmm. Wolfman writes a story heavily focused on Suicide Slum -- Byrne writes a story heavily featuring Suicide Slum in the same month. I'm pretty sure this is the third time we've seen Byrne coincidentally have aspects of his stories heavily resemble something Wolfman had done in the same month.

    - Darkseid's Omega Beams can accidentally transport a person to Earth instead of killing them??


    Plot synopsis in one long sentence:

    Barda shows up in suicide slum, gets her purse snatched (with her Mega Rod inside of it), the purse snatcher runs into the sewers and is killed by Sleez, a refuge from Apokolips, Sleez uses the weapon to mentally control and repeatedly rape Barda, Clark visits a clinic in Suicide Slum and discovers that some are being kept alive well beyond life expectancy by an odd kind of radiation, he traces the radiation's source to (presumably) Barda's Mega Rod, he runs in to Barda, breaks Barda's trance, and tries to prevent Barda from killing Sleez for what he's done, Barda tries to kill Superman (presuming Sleez is controlling him), and Sleez traps both in a pit.


    Sure enough, I will be driving to dupersuper's home immediately after posting this to burn his copy of this issue...
    Last edited by shaxper; 02-02-2013 at 04:56 AM.

  7. #307
    Elder Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    I fully endorse the burning of Action #592 and #593.

    I read these about a year back just to see what the fuss was all about, I seriously didn't think it could be as bad as everyone said.

    Boy, was I wrong.

  8. #308
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    Well, at least this issue was better than the last one.
    The Barda rape issue is better than no issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    Sure enough, I will be driving to dupersuper's home immediately after posting this to burn his copy of this issue...
    This one, I'd almost be ok with...
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  9. #309
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper
    This one, I'd almost be ok with...
    Good. ThwhtGuardian and I are your driveway now...

  10. #310
    S.P.E.C.T.R.E. destro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxley View Post
    At the risk of sounding uber-geeky, the much later Batman Family mini-series established that there is a villain in Gotham City called the Technician who supplies high-tech gizmos to Gotham's underworld. If you wanted, you could assume that he acquired the Superman robot off of him.
    Fair enough. I don't want to be too picky about this, as it's a comic book and 1000 impossible things happen every day. But I just think of Joker as a guy who could come up with a crazy death trap, or get his hands on bio weapons or the occasional suitcase nuke. Even with help, a full on Superman robot just seems out of his league to me. It brings up too many questions about why he doesn't bust out that sort of thing against Batman more often. Anyway, I'm just picking nits here. It's not that big of a deal, but it bugs me a bit.
    Life looks better in black and white.

  11. #311

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    These stories are basically exactly why I pretty much permanently lost all interest in Superman - and just about the entire mainstream DCU - after Crisis.

    My first issue of Superman was #414. So I had only been reading the book a few months when Crisis happened. I was totally confused beyond belief, but I did like Byrne's FF, so I gave the reboot a try.

    It's taken 25 years for me to become interested in Superman again, but pre-Crisis only. My collection will end with Action #583 and Superman #423. The thought of reading this Byrne garbage again is beyond anything a mortal man should have to bear.

    If you're starting a bonfire (or should that be a Byrnefire?), let me know so I can throw my Avengers West Coast collection onto it while I have the chance.
    At last, Boy Comics finally gets its own website!

  12. #312
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by destro View Post
    (or should that be a byrnefire?)
    too awesome!

  13. #313
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by destro View Post
    Fair enough. I don't want to be too picky about this, as it's a comic book and 1000 impossible things happen every day. But I just think of Joker as a guy who could come up with a crazy death trap, or get his hands on bio weapons or the occasional suitcase nuke. Even with help, a full on Superman robot just seems out of his league to me. It brings up too many questions about why he doesn't bust out that sort of thing against Batman more often. Anyway, I'm just picking nits here. It's not that big of a deal, but it bugs me a bit.
    I wrote a lengthy response backing you up on this one, and CBR ate it.

    But the basic points were:

    1. Byrne and Helfer keep going overboard to try to make Superman realistic (an absurd task) and saying as much in their letters cols, so they are inviting us to look for these absurd logic gaps.

    2. Getting your hands on a thermonuclear weapon should not be so easy that the Joker just happens to have one to use in his after-thought side-project effort to annoy Superman.

  14. #314
    Senior Member Polar Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post

    2. Getting your hands on a thermonuclear weapon should not be so easy that the Joker just happens to have one to use in his after-thought side-project effort to annoy Superman.
    Oh, come on; in the silver age Superman story I just reviewed, all one had to do for a thermonuclear explosion was mix together two innocuous fluids and wait for an hour...
    Anyway, it is cool for you to acquire acrimony of crumbling time on blast this website.
    --best spam ever

  15. #315
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    Oh, come on; in the silver age Superman story I just reviewed, all one had to do for a thermonuclear explosion was mix together two innocuous fluids and wait for an hour...
    Again, Weisinger era vs. Helfer/Carlin era. In one, the expectation was extreme suspension of disbelief. In the other, it was one shade gray of our reality.

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