Worst Fan Panic Logic

[T Hedge Coke]

To avoid further derailing another thread, what are some of the craziest reasons you've heard from fans panicking over Batman picking up a gun in this comic or that?

And, in general, what are some of the craziest, goofiest, or just plain weird logic you've seen used by fans to defend their huge emotional reaction to something in a Bat-comic that's "just clearly wrong"? Batman with a gun? Batman having sex? Batman not being crazy? Batman in a story with aliens or ghosts? Nightwing frowning? Tim Drake not being the everyboy of the DCU? Bathounds and Batmites? Shirtless Batman eating bananas?

I could almost get behind some of the "Nightwing shouldn't raped" camp, because they clearly feel passionately there, but the usual explanation for why tends to involve the phrase "she stole his smile!" or that Grayson wanted to have proxy-sex and chose a rapist everyone in the comic hates to do so.

Similarly, the sheer immensity of the reaction to the suggestion Batman sometimes uses excessive force or is a bit of a dick makes me okeh with it. He shouldn't always be a jerk, he shouldn't always be hitting unarmed mental patients in the neck, no, but there's enough examples of him and his colleagues, that it's got to be accepted as canon at this point, and dealt with. And, really, the strong reaction against it, every single time, is just silly.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

A lot of things Grant Morrison has written, to this day, are seen as blasphemous by some ignorant fans.

Batman fatally wounds Darkseid in Final Crisis, and the thing everybody pays attention to is that Batman used a gun. Oh no, this is out of character. Batman breaks a personal rule to save the world, but because he used a gun that was the only way he could have stopped Darkseid to stop Darkseid suddenly it was the worst thing ever.

Or, Damian. The son of Batman and Talia Al Ghul, raised by the LOA, kills someone and is a brat because that environment is supposed to breed Tim Drake-like modesty. Yet certain fans want every Robin to be like Tim, apparently.

Morrison uses things from the most ignored part of the Bat-mythos? IT'S TOO CAMP. WE NEED GRIM AND GRITTY.

Frank Miller has Dick go nuts in DK2? ATTACK HIM, because it's not like it's a different universe or anything or an idea that hasn't been done before.

Frank Miller does Frank Miller things in ASBAR? ATTACK HIM.

Winick brings Jason Todd back? ATTACK HIM, because there is such thing as permanence in serialized comics and Death In the Family was one of the best Bat-stories ever told.

[stk]

Frank Miller has Dick go nuts in DK2? ATTACK HIM,

Well, that was pretty dumb, though. Out of nowhere, added nothing to the plot, and...shape-changing powers? Which he uses to assume the forms of Legion of Super-Heroes members he never would have met? I'm one of the few who do like DK2, but that was Miller needing to go to rehab for something.

[T Hedge Coke]

Well, that was pretty dumb, though. Out of nowhere, added nothing to the plot, and...shape-changing powers? Which he uses to assume the forms of Legion of Super-Heroes members he never would have met? I'm one of the few who do like DK2, but that was Miller needing to go to rehab for something.

He dressed as several characters, including Mxy at one point, because he's a superhuman-imitator. He's a wannabe. And why wouldn't he have met Legion characters or at least know of them? Saturn Girl in that series knew about Legion's Saturn Girl, after all.

Not my favorite bit or reveal, certainly, but that it's horribly wrong because "Robin would never do that!" ignores that this is an alternate reality and that we don't know what happened in the interim years, period.

[Patroklos]

More or less every time Batman experiences even the slightest difficulty with something these boards usually burn up with raving posts on how the writer "doesn't get" Batman or is writing him "out of character", discussion on the recent Batman #5 being a prime example.

[TheDarkNut]

When Batman gets owned by another hero. Some of the annoying fanboys just go ape sh*t.

That or every time a new animated series is announced a bunch of people (usually always on the internet) just have to say "Oh no, this ain't Batman: TAS! Attack the show!"

[yaseen101]

In my experience it's been mostly when it comes to the Bat-God interpretation.

Either you have: people going nuts over Batman defeating a super human foe no matter how plausible it is or you have people going nuts whenever Batman has any difficulty taking down a stronger foe.

I'm more in the middle ground: I don't mind if Batman manages to take down a powerful opponent provided that it's done in a plausible manner that retains the character's humanity and roots but at the same time I hate the fact that Bat >> Supes is the rule not the exception and that it's been carried over to Batman >> Any super human character.


Also, while not frequent I have also met some folks who dislike Batman Beyond. Mainly because they are not just Batman fans but Bat-Family fans and Bruce ends up totally alone at the start of BB with the Bat-Family torn up apart (Dick and Bruce are not on speaking terms and they never reconciled, Tim was....y'know, Barbara and Bruce are on bitter terms etc, etc). It's not fan dumb though and I bring it up because it was rare to go on a board to see someone dislike BB (I loved it when I was a kid), I can understand their perspective in a 'how can I like it when it took away everything I like about the franchise?' and truth be told they have a point: it's really bittersweet to look at B:TAS or JLU Bruce when you know how he's going to end up.

Frankly until Rises, it seemed impossible for me that a darker take on Batman/Bruce Wayne could ever have a happy ending before he hit his 50's.

Also, there are the frequent debates on the reveal that Terry McGinnis was Bruce's son. Suffice to say I'm one of the few who disliked the whole idea. It never should have been done in the first place.

Not completely related to the topic but just something I've been meaning to say for sometime.

[DrFever]

Or, Damian. The son of Batman and Talia Al Ghul, raised by the LOA, kills someone and is a brat because that environment is supposed to breed Tim Drake-like modesty. Yet certain fans want every Robin to be like Tim, apparently.

People really have said that? He's one of the things I love right now.

[carabas]

In my experience it's been mostly when it comes to the Bat-God interpretation.

Either you have: people going nuts over Batman defeating a super human foe no matter how plausible it is or you have people going nuts whenever Batman has any difficulty taking down a stronger foe.

In my experience it's mostly when idiot writers do something that just makes no sense. Like how Adam Beechen writes Cassandra Cain.

OR, for the opposite of the usual example, this gem by, IIRC, Marc Guggenheim:





Batfans were not exactly exctatic about Bats taking down the entir JLA without preptime, just by punching and kicking. Wonder Woman fans even less.

Also, while not frequent I have also met some folks who dislike Batman Beyond. Mainly because they are not just Batman fans but Bat-Family fans and Bruce ends up totally alone at the start of BB with the Bat-Family torn up apart (Dick and Bruce are not on speaking terms and they never reconciled, Tim was....y'know, Barbara and Bruce are on bitter terms etc, etc). It's not fan dumb though and I bring it up because it was rare to go on a board to see someone dislike BB (I loved it when I was a kid), I can understand their perspective in a 'how can I like it when it took away everything I like about the franchise?' and truth be told they have a point: it's really bittersweet to look at B:TAS or JLU Bruce when you know how he's going to end up.

I think that this is very much fandumb. How else are possibly going to do a future Batman series?

Frankly until Rises, it seemed impossible for me that a darker take on Batman/Bruce Wayne could ever have a happy ending before he hit his 50's.

Here's the thing... Nolan's trilogy is kinda unique in the - for now - it actually has an ending.
Comics don't end. JLU didn't end, it went on in Batman Beyond.

Also, there are the frequent debates on the reveal that Terry McGinnis was Bruce's son. Suffice to say I'm one of the few who disliked the whole idea. It never should have been done in the first place.

It is icredibly easy for me to just ignore it happened at all.

[yaseen101]

In my experience it's mostly when idiot writers do something that just makes no sense. Like how Adam Beechen writes Cassandra Cain.

OR, for the opposite of the usual example, this gem by, IIRC, Marc Guggenheim:





Batfans were not exactly exctatic about Bats taking down the entir JLA without preptime, just by punching and kicking. Wonder Woman fans even less.

Okay that's just stupid. That's exactly what I hate about Bat-God; super powered heroes being made brain dead and the reality bending itself around the character allow for those wins. I'm not even going to comment on Batman managing to throw a smoke bomb before Flash got to him.

I think that this is very much fandumb. How else are possibly going to do a future Batman series?

Actually, they were just asked to do a teenage Batman show not necessarily 'future Batman show'.

It's not really fan dumb though, imagine if you were invested in character's relationships and his supporting cast then you jump ahead to the future to see that those relationships have fallen apart and your character has ended up totally alone. Wouldn't you feel angry?

Here's the thing... Nolan's trilogy is kinda unique in the - for now - it actually has an ending.
Comics don't end. JLU didn't end, it went on in Batman Beyond.

But the DCAU also had a start, middle and an ending. Granted one half of the 'middle' (JL and JLU) came after the 'end' show but still it had an beginning and ending.

Plus all I said was it was rare to see a darker Batman who has a happy ending before he reached his 50's. I'm not really sure what you are getting at here.

It is icredibly easy for me to just ignore it happened at all.

Hear, hear.

[carabas]

Okay that's just stupid. That's exactly what I hate about Bat-God; super powered heroes being made brain dead and the reality bending itself around the character allow for those wins. I'm not even going to comment on Batman managing to throw a smoke bomb before Flash got to him.

It's not a Bat-God problem, it's an idiot writer ptoblem. Similarily, compare how Prometheus beat powerful heroes that outclassed him back in Morrison's JLA stories, and how he did the same in Cry For Justice.

Actually, they were just asked to do a teenage Batman show not necessarily 'future Batman show'.

Well, good thing then that they managed to salvage that horrible idea.

It's not really fan dumb though, imagine if you were invested in character's relationships and his supporting cast then you jump ahead to the future to see that those relationships have fallen apart and your character has ended up totally alone. Wouldn't you feel angry?

I am immune to continuity. I learned the hard way that if you care about corporate superheroes, no matter whatn you're in for some hurt. I don't even see BTAS, JLU, and BB as taking place in the same universe.

But the DCAU also had a start, middle and an ending. Granted one half of the 'middle' (JL and JLU) came after the 'end' show but still it had an beginning and ending.

It stopped. That's not the same as having en ending.

Plus all I said was it was rare to see a darker Batman who has a happy ending before he reached his 50's. I'm not really sure what you are getting at here.

Simply that is is encredibly rare for any Batman to have any kind of ending at all, happy or otherwise. It's not really compatible with the nature of corporate comics.

[Sir_i4got]

The whole Steph=robin thing
She was never a robin. The only reason she wore the costume was cos Bruce wanted Tim back. It was only in I think 4 issues over one or two months.Huntress was Batgirl longer then Steph was Robin I have never heard anyone crying about that.

Also the way fans rage at Didio. Yes he is likely the one stopping steph from coming back but her SMALL number of fans seem to forget he was the one who allowed a c/d list character her own series.Of all the characters in the DCU Steph was the last one you would expect to get her own solo.
Didio may have been the one who cancelled Gotham Central but he was also the one who green lighted.
You see what Im getting at?

[carabas]

The whole Steph=robin thing
She was never a robin. The only reason she wore the costume was cos Bruce wanted Tim back. It was only in I think 4 issues over one or two months.Huntress was Batgirl longer then Steph was Robin I have never heard anyone crying about that.

Odd, because I actually have a bunch of comics with Steph as Robin in them...

And Helena Bertinelly has never been Batgirl. She was 'the Bat'.

[stk]

He dressed as several characters, including Mxy at one point, because he's a superhuman-imitator. He's a wannabe. And why wouldn't he have met Legion characters or at least know of them? Saturn Girl in that series knew about Legion's Saturn Girl, after all.

Not my favorite bit or reveal, certainly, but that it's horribly wrong because "Robin would never do that!" ignores that this is an alternate reality and that we don't know what happened in the interim years, period.

You are ignoring the larger problem of "What the hell does any of that have to do with the story being told?"

Then you have the inconsistency of Bruce calling out for Dick in delirium in DKR, "Dick, why did you leave?" or whatever. But then telling Dick, "You always sucked, I never liked you. DIE." in DK2.

But either way, the entire subplot (if you can even call it that, for as shallow as it is) is completely superfluous to the plot of the book. It serves no purpose.

[Sir_i4got]

Odd, because I actually have a bunch of comics with Steph as Robin in them...

And Helena Bertinelly has never been Batgirl. She was 'the Bat'.

Ok sorry instead of 4 it was 6. It was a plot point. She was never a robin anymore then Superman is a batman in the times he has put on the Costume.
Robin #s 126-128
Detective Comics # 796
Teen Titans (third series) # 13
Batgirl # 53

She was just as much a Batgirl as Steph was a Robin. Her costume was passed as the Batgirl costume,