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  1. #31
    *choke* Dan B. in the Underworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roquefort Raider View Post
    I stopped reading W.i.l.d.Cats after one issue. ("Die, human scum"??? Really???)
    Standard workplace utterance in the U.S., actually.

    You silly Canadians & your pathological politeness ...
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

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  2. #32
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    I feel that there is objective proof of the inferiority of the Image style of writing and artwork: the Heroes Reborn fiasco. Marvel outsourced some of their most popular non-X titles to the Image creators, and the results were terrible. So terrible that Marvel renegotiated only six months in, and pulled the plug on the whole mess with one year.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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  3. #33
    Senior Member dr chimp's Avatar
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    The Image style of artwork was just the Marvel style though. All of these guys worked at Marvel before Image and sold ridiculous numbers of books drawing in that style.

    In Pussey you see Dr Infinity paying off the bearded pervert editor of a comics reviews magazine to review his books favorably. From memory though at this point Dr Infinity is a caricature of the head of Marvel and i am assuming the bearded pervert is editor of Wizard so make of that what you will.
    "...so Hitler sends Iron Jaw's son to America to get revenge on Crimebuster." S.H.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Dizzy D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    I feel that there is objective proof of the inferiority of the Image style of writing and artwork: the Heroes Reborn fiasco. Marvel outsourced some of their most popular non-X titles to the Image creators, and the results were terrible. So terrible that Marvel renegotiated only six months in, and pulled the plug on the whole mess with one year.
    Captain America and Avengers sure, but Iron Man and Fantastic Four both had a big boost in sales from the event.

  5. #35
    Modus omnibus in rebus Roquefort Raider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr chimp View Post
    The Image style of artwork was just the Marvel style though. All of these guys worked at Marvel before Image and sold ridiculous numbers of books drawing in that style.
    Well, that is quite true. I think when people say "Image Style" they don't limit it to comics published by Image, but by all other publishers as well. It's unfortunate that many of the Jim Lee imitators could imitate but not create (and some could not even imitate properly).

    Comic-book art is like agriculture, in a sense: monoculture is bad. Diversity is a much better idea, even if one particular crop brings in a lot of cash.
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  6. #36
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr chimp View Post
    The Image style of artwork was just the Marvel style though. All of these guys worked at Marvel before Image and sold ridiculous numbers of books drawing in that style.
    No. Marvel was around for decades before those guys started working for them, so most fans will never associate them with the term "Marvel style." Guys like Kirby, Ditko, Trimpe, and both Buscema brothers made a major impact on the visual appearance of Marvel comics during the first 15 years. These Image artists may have started at Marvel, but were around for the crucial early years at Image, so they will always be primarily associated with Image. Besides, people don't really talk about a single Marvel style, because even in the early days, the major work was done by two very different artists, Kirby and Ditko. More often, people will talk about the "Marvel house style," which refers to the way Stan Lee didn't fully script comics until he got the artwork.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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  7. #37
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    I always thought "house style" was a reference to the uniform art style they employed across all their titles. Their comics do all pretty much look the same. I mean every decade the look is updated, and some obviously do it better than others, but they don't like titles to look too unique from one another. Before Image, I think the "Image style" was the Marvel style. Not just all the artists who left Marvel for Image, but those who stayed and those who came after for the next two or three years all shared that similar look. And not just Marvel either. Most mainstream comics and plenty of smaller publishers comics with mainstream aspirations, like Malibu comics. I wouldn't say Kirby and Ditko are all that different in style. Kirby and Sam Keith are, and that's why all Sam Keith ever got was cover work on one of their second or third tier titles. Even when Frank Miller was on Daredevil and Wolverine, his work looked on par with the rest of the Bronze Age Marvel Universe. They would never have allowed him to illustrate a major title the way he illustrated Sin City, especially not before Sin City was a proven success.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randumbz View Post
    you've obviously never seen this website: http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012...efeld-drawings
    haha, ya I saw that site the other day......some of it makes a lot of sense when you break it down and get picky, especially the feet

  9. #39
    Senior Member dr chimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    No. Marvel was around for decades before those guys started working for them, so most fans will never associate them with the term "Marvel style." Guys like Kirby, Ditko, Trimpe, and both Buscema brothers made a major impact on the visual appearance of Marvel comics during the first 15 years. These Image artists may have started at Marvel, but were around for the crucial early years at Image, so they will always be primarily associated with Image. Besides, people don't really talk about a single Marvel style, because even in the early days, the major work was done by two very different artists, Kirby and Ditko. More often, people will talk about the "Marvel house style," which refers to the way Stan Lee didn't fully script comics until he got the artwork.
    Of course the quintessential marvel style will always be kirby, ditko etc but at the same time Marvel did seem to have a very distinctive house style pre image in the 90s for a number of books that bore very little relation to what they had done before. It was Marvel that "pioneered" that 90s "image" style; the huge proportions, the distorted anatomy, the "scratchy" inking. Image was just a collective of Marvel artists at the start. Image gets the flack but it was Marvel that "created" and hyped that style of drawing.
    Last edited by dr chimp; 11-12-2012 at 02:16 PM.
    "...so Hitler sends Iron Jaw's son to America to get revenge on Crimebuster." S.H.

  10. #40
    what happens next? tolworthy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr chimp View Post
    Price of Big 2 comic in early 90s was still very cheap too - 60-70p for a standard issue or at least half the price of other publishers stuff.
    Fair point. But look at when the prices went up, and by how much:
    1987 (before McFarlane): 75c
    1988 (after McFarlane): $1.00
    This stayed the same until:
    1991 (when McFarlane and Liefeld make their ultimatum to Marvel): $1.75

    I find that if we blame everything on Image we will not go far wrong in life. ;)

  11. #41
    Senior Member dr chimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    I always thought "house style" was a reference to the uniform art style they employed across all their titles. Their comics do all pretty much look the same. I mean every decade the look is updated, and some obviously do it better than others, but they don't like titles to look too unique from one another. Before Image, I think the "Image style" was the Marvel style. Not just all the artists who left Marvel for Image, but those who stayed and those who came after for the next two or three years all shared that similar look. And not just Marvel either. Most mainstream comics and plenty of smaller publishers comics with mainstream aspirations, like Malibu comics. I wouldn't say Kirby and Ditko are all that different in style. Kirby and Sam Keith are, and that's why all Sam Keith ever got was cover work on one of their second or third tier titles. Even when Frank Miller was on Daredevil and Wolverine, his work looked on par with the rest of the Bronze Age Marvel Universe. They would never have allowed him to illustrate a major title the way he illustrated Sin City, especially not before Sin City was a proven success.
    much more eloquent than my effort.
    "...so Hitler sends Iron Jaw's son to America to get revenge on Crimebuster." S.H.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Dizzy D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    I always thought "house style" was a reference to the uniform art style they employed across all their titles. Their comics do all pretty much look the same. I mean every decade the look is updated, and some obviously do it better than others, but they don't like titles to look too unique from one another. Before Image, I think the "Image style" was the Marvel style. Not just all the artists who left Marvel for Image, but those who stayed and those who came after for the next two or three years all shared that similar look. And not just Marvel either. Most mainstream comics and plenty of smaller publishers comics with mainstream aspirations, like Malibu comics. I wouldn't say Kirby and Ditko are all that different in style. Kirby and Sam Keith are, and that's why all Sam Keith ever got was cover work on one of their second or third tier titles. Even when Frank Miller was on Daredevil and Wolverine, his work looked on par with the rest of the Bronze Age Marvel Universe. They would never have allowed him to illustrate a major title the way he illustrated Sin City, especially not before Sin City was a proven success.
    Counterpoint: Bill Sienkiewicz (once he hit New Mutants). Though I actually do agree with your point. For the vast majority of titles, there was a baseline artstyle with some fluctuations left and right.

  13. #43
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy D View Post
    Counterpoint: Bill Sienkiewicz (once he hit New Mutants). Though I actually do agree with your point. For the vast majority of titles, there was a baseline artstyle with some fluctuations left and right.
    Even Seinkiewicz on New Mutants. Look at that interior art and look at anything he does now. A striking difference, with the New Mutants art being a bit blander than his other work


    And again, New Mutants was a second tier title at best. I believe Elektra was too but I can't really remember for sure. It was some sort of out-of-continuity thing wasn't it?
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  14. #44
    Senior Member dr chimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolworthy View Post
    Fair point. But look at when the prices went up, and by how much:
    1987 (before McFarlane): 75c
    1988 (after McFarlane): $1.00
    This stayed the same until:
    1991 (when McFarlane and Liefeld make their ultimatum to Marvel): $1.75

    I find that if we blame everything on Image we will not go far wrong in life. ;)
    Perelman was setting the book prices though not McFarlane. Spiderman was a $1.75 book straight out the gate in 1990. That same month Amazing Spiderman drawn by another image artist Erik Larssen was $1.
    "...so Hitler sends Iron Jaw's son to America to get revenge on Crimebuster." S.H.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Dizzy D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    Even Seinkiewicz on New Mutants. Look at that interior art and look at anything he does now. A striking difference, with the New Mutants art being a bit blander than his other work

    And again, New Mutants was a second tier title at best. I believe Elektra was too but I can't really remember for sure. It was some sort of out-of-continuity thing wasn't it?
    That Moon Knight picture is still him doing Neal Adams. New Mutants and later Daredevil and Elektra were more experimental. Don't know whether Elektra was in-continuity or not, Daredevil was at least.



    I don't know about New Mutants being second tier: X-Men was big at that time, Claremont was one of their top-writers and this was their first spin-off. Can't find any sales figures for it though.
    Last edited by Dizzy D; 11-12-2012 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Removed pictures from quote for readability

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