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  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Joker knows that Batman and Bruce are connected through Batman, Inc. And therefore would conclude that Batman would be concerned about the capture of one of Bruce Wayne's close associates. It would have made more sense for him to go after Wayne himself, but maybe he had to settle for what he could get at the time.
    He wanted a bulter/server.

  2. #632
    Gigantic Member ispacehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    It would have made more sense for him to go after Wayne himself, but maybe he had to settle for what he could get at the time.
    According to the issue, he took Alfred to provide service at whatever he has planned.

    We're supposed to believe that Alfred is the most likely candidate for such a job because of his connection to Wayne and Inc.

    A little dubious, but not horribly so.

  3. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxpower00044 View Post
    I find it odd that a lot of people want Batman to rely and trust his family more, then we get a monologue saying how much he relys Alfred and that he is missing the void of not having him for a briefing, and all of a sudden Batman's insecure and a wussy.
    Well he is being a wussy that's Bruce coming out Batman is supposed to be stronger than that so he is showing his cracks which compounds his failing to stop Joker
    Currrently Reading- Suicide Squad,Justice League,Batwoman,Batman,Batman and Robin,Detective Comics, Wonder Woman,Batman Eternal,Mighty Avengers,All new X-factor,Justice League 3000 and Harley Quinn

  4. #634
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    I just think the whole thing is absolutely stupid and I'm sick of Snyder's Batman being such a naive prick. (In regards to Joker knowing his identity, that is. Bruce being mildly emotional about Alfred's kidnapping isn't completely unrealistic.)
    Last edited by tiptupjr94; 11-16-2012 at 12:19 PM.

  5. #635
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiptupjr94 View Post
    If Joker didn't know Bruce was Batman, he would have little reason to believe that capturing Alfred would significantly affect Batman's psyche.
    It's not about him knowing and caring, though.

    In his monologue he didn't talk about Alfred, he pretty much dismissed Batman about it. He also, as mentioned before, didn't call Nightwing anything other than Nightwing (yes, yes, he mentioned he was a former Robin ).

    He doesn't care about Alfred's relationship to Bruce, all he wanted to underline was that this was 'personal' but still between him and the Bat. The superfluous trappings need to be shed, yes, and this includes the wider family. Joker wants Batman back in Gotham proper, so cutting him off from the rest of the world (an extraneous realm not worthy of the Kingship of the Bat) is part of the various plays he's employing.

  6. #636
    Senior Member Trey's Avatar
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    Boy has this thread become tedious with everyone banging thier head against a wall....geez.
    "Calm down, call Batman." - Greg Capullo

  7. #637
    My Opinion > Your Opinion maxpower00044's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey View Post
    Boy has this thread become tedious with everyone banging thier head against a wall....geez.
    Welcome to our monthly Batman debate. :)

  8. #638
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    Basically here we go again with:

    - Batman in denial
    - Batman Stubborn and careless
    - Shocking secret hinted and probably revealed at the end of the arc

    Meh.. boring... same structure that the Owls arc had...


    PD: Add : - Numerous threats through-out Gotham, and participation of the whole Bat-Family.

  9. #639
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidian View Post
    - Shocking secret hinted and probably revealed at the end of the arc
    I'm telling you, Brigilante pushed the Red Hood guy into the vat...

  10. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    I'm telling you, Brigilante pushed the Red Hood guy into the vat...
    Lol, yeah, o probably... the red hood was Tim's father, but dumped him in a trash can, hoping that he will grow up to be his nemesis pseudo side-kick, oh and..

    Jack Nicholson was an owl (?

  11. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    I'm telling you, Brigilante pushed the Red Hood guy into the vat...
    Anyway, yeah that was everyone's first thought, so if that's the case, it's fail "shock" lol

    I will laugh a lot with that scene, I can't even imagine it. xD

  12. #642
    All Caste Warrior JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    And here again we're speaking in extremes, where most would simply prefer a balanced portrayal. Like others have mentioned; it's not relying on someone, but relying on them everyday to the point where they're a bit ineffectual without them.
    I don't think that Batman's be portrayed as being ineffectual without Alfred's guidance in the field in that scene myself. Alfred is more than that to Bruce. He's a father figure, a mentor of sorts and the one person that Bruce trusts above everyone else. He would be out of his mind with worry and that would show through even in his Batman persona. All this scene is showing is his concern for the man who raised him and how the Joker has managed to throw Batman off his game by this one simple action.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverYoung8 View Post
    My only issue with it is that Batman will usually have a task for Alfred. Call this ally, call that one, look this up for me, I've sent you something to analyze, etc. I liked the point Snyder tried to make; it's just the way it's worded, it seems like Batman wouldn't be able to do anything without a supportive pep talk from Alfred.
    I don't think it's that. I think it's more of a case of Batman needing to know Alfred is safe back at the Manor more than he's in need of any kind of pep talk from him. Knowing that helps him to stay focused on whatever mission he's happens to be on.

    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    My preference is just not a Batman that's this emotionally stunted. Like ForeverYoung stated, this is a far cry from The Goddamn Batman (not that that's my favorite portrayal either. They're both extremes.)

    Of course Batman would be scared and doubtful, but here he's kind of waffling and useless. He's completely off his guard, walking into traps; and generally providing ample evidence that his allies are, in fact, a weakness, if the thought of harm coming to them gets Bruce this far off his game.
    And nobody thinks that maybe Joker's return has anything to do with the way Batman is acting? Has everyone here forgotten what happened to Batman after Joker killed Jason Todd years ago? Joker's always had a way of pushing Batman's buttons and getting under his archenemy's skin. He's done so on numerous occasions before so it's not like Batman's reaction here is so out in left field as to be impossible.
    Characters come and go, revamped and revisited. But as long as you enjoyed them, remember them and continue to appreciate them, then that character, your hero or heroine, will always exist.

  13. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidian View Post
    Basically here we go again with:

    - Batman in denial
    - Batman Stubborn and careless
    - Shocking secret hinted and probably revealed at the end of the arc

    Meh.. boring... same structure that the Owls arc had...


    PD: Add : - Numerous threats through-out Gotham, and participation of the whole Bat-Family.
    -Denying something, doesn't mean you're in denial. We have no idea what the Joker knows, and he hasn't presented anything to Batman, other than a blanket statement.

    -We all have our ideas of who Batman is. It shouldn't change from story to story, when writen by the same writer.

    -Shocking secret hinted and revealed at the end of the arc? If you have a problem with that, I don't think Batman comics are for you. Any of them.

    -I am not a fan of the crossovers either.

    The structure of the story really isn't like the Court Arc, in any way that you suggest, outside of connections that most superhero comics have.

  14. #644
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidian View Post
    Anyway, yeah that was everyone's first thought, so if that's the case, it's fail "shock" lol
    So now we just have to wait for the re-writes since the big reveal's been ruined...

  15. #645
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I don't think that Batman's be portrayed as being ineffectual without Alfred's guidance in the field in that scene myself. Alfred is more than that to Bruce. He's a father figure, a mentor of sorts and the one person that Bruce trusts above everyone else. He would be out of his mind with worry and that would show through even in his Batman persona. All this scene is showing is his concern for the man who raised him and how the Joker has managed to throw Batman off his game by this one simple action.
    I wasn't speaking so much to that one scene as I was the issue as a whole. Compare Batman's mental state here to a story like The Killing Joke, where despite what happened to Babs and Jim, Bruce was still very much the capable, composed hero we all know and love; who set out not to fall into another of Joker's traps (or even two of them) but to come down upon him with a vengeance and knock a few of his teeth out (preferably with a back handed blow, like the one he gave to Nightwing.) "I've heard it all before, and it wasn't funny the first time!"

    But again, it's Alfred, so it's understandable the reaction would be different. As I said, though, it's just not my preference. Stubborn, paranoid (someone might be listening!) Batman is one of the reasons I really disliked Waid's Tower of Babel, as well.

    And nobody thinks that maybe Joker's return has anything to do with the way Batman is acting? Has everyone here forgotten what happened to Batman after Joker killed Jason Todd years ago? Joker's always had a way of pushing Batman's buttons and getting under his archenemy's skin. He's done so on numerous occasions before so it's not like Batman's reaction here is so out in left field as to be impossible.
    It has everything to do with it. But I think we're getting these extreme reactions from Bruce and Gordon, which go beyond the reactions these characters have had in similar circumstances in the past, because this time "The Joker is more dangerous than ever before"; and therefore everyone has to act twice as afraid and the bodycount has to be ten times as high, etc.

    Meanwhile, as a reader, The Joker doesn't really act any crazier than he has in other stories. That's why it doesn't quite work for me.

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