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  1. #136
    Critical Critic nosocialize100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    Yes, but that's in reference to spoilers:
    Morrison's Joker being able to take down Snyder's Joker, not something that happens within the book
    end of spoilers
    Ah my mistake. I thought we were talking about spoilers:
    Joker killing other personalities inside himself
    end of spoilers.

    Thanks.
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  2. #137
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    He hears scratching at a door, then opens the door and looks down. The cute and disturbing cat is on a tiled floor, obviously inside of the house.
    I'll have a look tonight, but I'm pretty sure it's the front door (could be a service entrance or something like that).

    Then Joker walks up behind Alfred. There is no doorbell, it isn't even a front door. The lack of surveillance isn't a problem.* In fact that one page is the page I had the least issues with in the entire issue. The "title" page after it says "Knock, Knock" but that was probably written by an editor.
    *lack of surveillance is a problem when it was made clear in the previous arc that there are cameras and sensors set up around the grounds...


  3. #138
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosocialize100 View Post
    Ah my mistake. I thought we were talking about spoilers:
    Joker killing other personalities inside himself
    end of spoilers.

    Thanks.
    No, no, that was spoilers:
    me being silly (although I think it works with regards to Mistah J...)
    end of spoilers



  4. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    He hears scratching at a door, then opens the door and looks down. The cute and disturbing cat is on a tiled floor, obviously inside of the house. Then Joker walks up behind Alfred. There is no doorbell, it isn't even a front door. The lack of surveillance isn't a problem. In fact that one page is the page I had the least issues with in the entire issue. The "title" page after it says "Knock, Knock" but that was probably written by an editor.
    I'm looking at it right now, and yes, it appears they are both inside the manor. But come on, Joker's a smart guy. He knows what he's doing. The Talons got in, I think Joker could get him and the lion cub in just fine, he's smarter and more creative than all of them combined. Like someone said earlier, he's been gone for about a year. Of course he's spent it all planning how to defeat Batman the whole time. I doubt he went on a roundabout Down Under to find himself. I don't really think it's too much of a stretch to assume Joker doesn't have the ability to break into Wayne Manor.
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  5. #140
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    Yeah, I meant that Morrison's Joker was a more evolved and dangerous person than this version.

    Spoilery discussion to follow, no whining!

    I mean, Snyder(and Suicide Squad) is trying to show us how 'dangerous' he is by having him abuse Harley. Problem is, he already did all this to her in the Morrison Joker issue. That's why she's been away from him for so long. This isn't really a transformation, it just seems like the new writers aren't paying attention to changes he already went through.

    Light spoilers:



    We know the Joker knows who the family are. He's known all through Morrison's run, seeking them out. He even saw Bruce unmask in RIP. Those events are in continuity and are still being referenced.

    I am willing to believe the Joker destroys his previous memories/personality when he invents new ones, so it's entirely possibly that he largely forgets the specifics of events, so he can easily forget who Batman is(if his new agenda is to discover his identity, for fun), or randomly remember. I'm also willing to accept that Bruce was so drugged up in RIP that he doesn't really know if the Joker recognized him.

    AGAIN. Spoilers.

    The problem is that in Batman #14, the Joker claims to have discovered everyone's identity due to some secret Bruce is keeping from everyone else. A book or something. In return, Bruce doesn't believe that the Joker could know who he is.

    Snyder even has Batman mention that Joker could be targeting Bruce Wayne because of his ties to Incorporated. It's an odd thing to see Snyder reference Incorporated, which is a concept that really defeats Batman's secret identity by making it an obsolete non-issue, while also pushing this big story that Joker found out who he was(when he already knew in the stories that lead into Incorporated).

    Comics, right?

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    but to bombard Bruce Wayne with a 'swarm of locusts' would give the desired message to any of the believers in Wayne's cause.
    Aren't the court of owls supposed to have been operating at such a level of stealthiness that not even the batman is aware of their existence? Sending a message with a swarm of talons would seem to contradict that idea.

    But of course they do seem to be very sloppy and public in their assassination attempts on everyone else. Why would they all of a sudden choose to strike so publicly? I don't feel that this was made clear in the book.

    Quote Originally Posted by dubbauw View Post
    He stole some disabling gun/device from the police that took out the whole station's power and backup generator, presumably security systems as well.
    Wouldn't alfred notice if all wayne manor security systems and power sources were disabled?
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  7. #142
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughNTumble View Post
    Aren't the court of owls supposed to have been operating at such a level of stealthiness that not even the batman is aware of their existence? Sending a message with a swarm of talons would seem to contradict that idea.
    They were changing tact here, hence the swarm and the whole 'onwards, our minions, bring Gotham's citizenry to their knees'...mwahahahahahaha

    But of course they do seem to be very sloppy and public in their assassination attempts on everyone else. Why would they all of a sudden choose to strike so publicly? I don't feel that this was made clear in the book.
    They were quite sloppy in their pre-serum-freeze days, too - their inconsistent portrayal may be best left to be covered in Talon...


    Wouldn't alfred notice if all wayne manor security systems and power sources were disabled?
    Well, he did in CoO...'second time's the charm'?

  8. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughNTumble View Post
    Aren't the court of owls supposed to have been operating at such a level of stealthiness that not even the batman is aware of their existence? Sending a message with a swarm of talons would seem to contradict that idea.

    But of course they do seem to be very sloppy and public in their assassination attempts on everyone else. Why would they all of a sudden choose to strike so publicly? I don't feel that this was made clear in the book.
    Yes, I think the Court was operating on a certain level of stealth before this, but they suddenly felt the need to turn things up a notch and make a statement that they are real, dangerous, and should not be trifled with. I think they became desperate once Batman escaped and defeated their Talon. It could also be basically telling Batman that they control Gotham, not him, and he can't stop them (although he did).

    Wouldn't alfred notice if all wayne manor security systems and power sources were disabled?
    They weren't disabled. That was at the police station. How he broke into Wayne Manor is unknown.
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  9. #144
    Unreasonably Opinionated Conway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubbauw View Post
    They weren't disabled. That was at the police station. How he broke into Wayne Manor is unknown.
    I personally, never had a problem with The Joker being able to defeat Batman's security.

    But how Batman doesn't see a giant spring loaded cartoon mallet on the ceiling... I don't even know if I should be disappointed or insulted. At least hide a giant boxing glove in a vat or something, you still get the joke effect, and I'm not left thinking Batman is the dumbest guy in Gotham. That isn't even going into the stupid omens, Gordon and his cops acting like teenagers in a slasher film, Batman in an elevator telling me Joker is "meaner and angrier this time", or the Joker himself having less personality than the ghoul in "Scream".

  10. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    I personally, never had a problem with The Joker being able to defeat Batman's security.

    But how Batman doesn't see a giant spring loaded cartoon mallet on the ceiling... I don't even know if I should be disappointed or insulted. At least hide a giant boxing glove in a vat or something, you still get the joke effect, and I'm not left thinking Batman is the dumbest guy in Gotham. That isn't even going into the stupid omens, Gordon and his cops acting like teenagers in a slasher film, Batman in an elevator telling me Joker is "meaner and angrier this time", or the Joker himself having less personality than the ghoul in "Scream".
    100% agree with you about the mallet. Although I can't even see any hint of it in previous panels either... I'm just gonna tell myself he was in a fit of rage. The omens, eh, works as an intro for me, thats about it. Gordon and the cops being attacked, I'd think even the most experienced cops would absolutely freak out if Joker was systematically murdering each of them in their own offices. My favorite scene was the broadcast with parlor trick with the arms and killing the guy. That was just creepy and I think it did a good job showing he is mean and angry, although it's hard to judge if he is "meaner and angrier" than previously.
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  11. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post
    Yeah, I meant that Morrison's Joker was a more evolved and dangerous person than this version.

    Spoilery discussion to follow, no whining!

    I mean, Snyder(and Suicide Squad) is trying to show us how 'dangerous' he is by having him abuse Harley. Problem is, he already did all this to her in the Morrison Joker issue. That's why she's been away from him for so long. This isn't really a transformation, it just seems like the new writers aren't paying attention to changes he already went through.

    Light spoilers:



    We know the Joker knows who the family are. He's known all through Morrison's run, seeking them out. He even saw Bruce unmask in RIP. Those events are in continuity and are still being referenced.

    I am willing to believe the Joker destroys his previous memories/personality when he invents new ones, so it's entirely possibly that he largely forgets the specifics of events, so he can easily forget who Batman is(if his new agenda is to discover his identity, for fun), or randomly remember. I'm also willing to accept that Bruce was so drugged up in RIP that he doesn't really know if the Joker recognized him.

    AGAIN. Spoilers.

    The problem is that in Batman #14, the Joker claims to have discovered everyone's identity due to some secret Bruce is keeping from everyone else. A book or something. In return, Bruce doesn't believe that the Joker could know who he is.

    Snyder even has Batman mention that Joker could be targeting Bruce Wayne because of his ties to Incorporated. It's an odd thing to see Snyder reference Incorporated, which is a concept that really defeats Batman's secret identity by making it an obsolete non-issue, while also pushing this big story that Joker found out who he was(when he already knew in the stories that lead into Incorporated).

    Comics, right?
    Could you spoiler something for me? What does Bruce say 'no' about?

  12. #147

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    It seems that DOTF is gonna have the same problem that I had with NOTO, a lot of style but no substance. A shame really, both of them have interesting premises

  13. #148
    just does things Vil_Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post
    Also, my fiance is a chemist. She says the ingredients for the chemical that Joker fell in sounds close to fertilizer and if you were to mix those chemicals, you'd end up with a white powder, not bubbling green fluid =)
    It sounds more like a leaching/anodizing tank. Zinc sulfide = zinc ore. pH levels are adjusted with Sodium Hydroxide (a base) and Sulfuric Acid. Altering the pH levels cause different metals in the ore to selectively precipitate so they can be isolated. The chromium solution could be used for anodizing as some metals are coated with chromium to prevent corrosion.




    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post

    Spoilery discussion to follow, no whining!

    I mean, Snyder(and Suicide Squad) is trying to show us how 'dangerous' he is by having him abuse Harley. Problem is, he already did all this to her in the Morrison Joker issue. That's why she's been away from him for so long. This isn't really a transformation, it just seems like the new writers aren't paying attention to changes he already went through.

    Light spoilers:



    The problem is that in Batman #14, the Joker claims to have discovered everyone's identity due to some secret Bruce is keeping from everyone else. A book or something. In return, Bruce doesn't believe that the Joker could know who he is.

    Snyder even has Batman mention that Joker could be targeting Bruce Wayne because of his ties to Incorporated. It's an odd thing to see Snyder reference Incorporated, which is a concept that really defeats Batman's secret identity by making it an obsolete non-issue, while also pushing this big story that Joker found out who he was(when he already knew in the stories that lead into Incorporated).

    Comics, right?

    Harley's been away from him because he left her. He just disappeared and didn't tell her about his face ripping off plans. Then she got thrown into the suicide squad after she was apprehended, then captain boomerang told her Joker was dead.


    I guess one could infer that even though Batman RIP still happened it didn't happen the same exact way. Just like Death in the family didn't happen the same exact way. In the 52 Batman RIP, Bruce may not have seen Joker staring at him without his mask on, maybe in this version Joker found Batman's black case book from the Morry run.

  14. #149
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Bleeding Cool review is up, for anyone that wants to read it:

    http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/f...t-h-i-n-g.html

    I didn't read the entire thing, for reasons I listed a few posts below the review; but if it's any indication of what we're going to see in the book tomorrow then I really don't think I'm going to enjoy it.

  15. #150
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    newsarama review

    9/10

    someone's passing around the kool-aid, and I'm not getting any

    http://www.newsarama.com/comics/best...aga-x-men.html
    Grandparents dead - please no jokes

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