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  1. #61
    Dark Knight Detective DarkKnghtJared's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicjoke View Post
    I like how Snyder builds up the Joker's boogy man persona by having Batman's inner thoughts relating that no one should have been able to survive the chemical dip he took. It really does make the Joker seem like a force of nature, and that just heightens the effectiveness of his scare factor. Scary, scary dude.
    Yeah--though I do see a slight problem with that...Harley. Isn't it Harley's new origin now that she jumped into those same vat of chemicals to prove her devotion to him? I guess you should say that the only one who did survive was the one who gave herself to him, which is still pretty creepy too, but still, slightly inaccurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I don't think they will have killed off Alfred myself but it is likely that Joker has taken him out of the picture in some way so that the others have lost their medic among other things.
    My theory is that Alfred gets seriously hurt/crippled, and at some point, when Bruce needs someone to help him on the comms and the like, he goes to Harper Row, and she'll fill in while Alfred recovers.

  2. #62
    All Caste Warrior JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post
    My theory is that Alfred gets seriously hurt/crippled, and at some point, when Bruce needs someone to help him on the comms and the like, he goes to Harper Row, and she'll fill in while Alfred recovers.
    That's my thinking as well. Snyder said she would become important in a later story arc and I think this could be that time.
    Characters come and go, revamped and revisited. But as long as you enjoyed them, remember them and continue to appreciate them, then that character, your hero or heroine, will always exist.

  3. #63
    Dark Knight Detective DarkKnghtJared's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    That's my thinking as well. Snyder said she would become important in a later story arc and I think this could be that time.
    Yeah--like his assist at comms and tech while running missions at night, maybe she becomes his "personal assistant" by day. He compensates her enough to allow her to run the building that she and her brother live in independantly, something like that.

  4. #64
    All Caste Warrior JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post
    Yeah--like his assist at comms and tech while running missions at night, maybe she becomes his "personal assistant" by day. He compensates her enough to allow her to run the building that she and her brother live in independantly, something like that.
    That could be, especially if Alfred is taken out of the picture for an extended period of time and I could see Harper getting some kind of compensation from Bruce Wayne as well.
    Characters come and go, revamped and revisited. But as long as you enjoyed them, remember them and continue to appreciate them, then that character, your hero or heroine, will always exist.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post
    Yeah--like his assist at comms and tech while running missions at night, maybe she becomes his "personal assistant" by day. He compensates her enough to allow her to run the building that she and her brother live in independantly, something like that.
    How does the part in bold work with the fact that Bruce Wayne has that building scheduled for demolition as part of his big renovation project?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    I don't beleive Alfred will die here, but I don't think DC is afraid to kill him off because they have no plausible way to bring him back. How many Lazurus pits are floating around out there, exactly?
    how many do you need to tell your shocking story?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    Joker mentioned he would go after Batman's allies in the last issue in order to "save him".
    I still have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
    Grandparents dead - please no jokes

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  8. #68
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughNTumble View Post
    I still have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
    Have you read Johns' Flash, with Hunter Zolomon as Zoom?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    Have you read Johns' Flash, with Hunter Zolomon as Zoom?
    Not yet, I'm working on bronze age green lantern right now.
    Grandparents dead - please no jokes

    make mine DC, thanks

  10. #70
    Dark Knight Detective DarkKnghtJared's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughNTumble View Post
    I still have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
    The Bat-Family, in essence, are his grounding point, people who keep him from going to the deep end, to spiralling into paranoia and hopelessness. They're what keeps him human--but Joker doesn't want that. The Joker wants Batman to be the grim, unfeeling, inhuman figure to match his own. So, to Joker's mind, the family makes Batman weak, and thus need to be taken care of, so that their game can go on uninterrupted again.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughNTumble View Post
    I still have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
    Joker thinks Batman's allies make him weak.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnghtJared View Post
    The Bat-Family, in essence, are his grounding point, people who keep him from going to the deep end, to spiralling into paranoia and hopelessness. They're what keeps him human--but Joker doesn't want that. The Joker wants Batman to be the grim, unfeeling, inhuman figure to match his own. So, to Joker's mind, the family makes Batman weak, and thus need to be taken care of, so that their game can go on uninterrupted again.
    Oh okay, that makes much more sense. I was trying to wrap my head around the idea that joker was trying to make batman a stronger crimefighter because he works better alone or w/e. Yeah, that seems like something joker would do, though I'm not sure why he's angrier than he would normally be.
    Grandparents dead - please no jokes

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  13. #73
    Veteran Member Retro315's Avatar
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    I enjoyed this preview tremendously. Then suddenly out of nowhere I remembered that Joker doesn't have a face. It's kind of hard to take pseudo-seriously.

    Thematically, artistically, creatively, whatever ... Joker's face is his money-maker. I mean, psychologically - the reason he is so traumatized and scarred is because of vanity-reversal. The tragedy is that this unfunny guy has to live with looking like a clown for the rest of his life. Without the face of a Joker playing card ... he's not really the Joker anymore.

    I hope Snyder's train of thought goes in the same direction. I think it might, but who can say until it's all said and done.

    But then, what do you do when you're a pale white guy with green hair and a bloody red face? Is that really better than having the face of a clown you have a love/hate relationship with? Joker is vain, and relishes his "public image" more than anybody. No face?

    Where's the motivation for cutting your face off? "Oh, because he's cuckoo-nutso, of course!" isn't going to cut it. The move to take off his own face fundamentally undermines his Joker-ness (which can work, in story, but means they have to dare to tread in having actual motivations for Joker, and connective threads from his Pre-Joker, Jack days that have been buried in the back of his mind for years since his accident and have manifested in a self-hatred so heavy that he'd mutilate his own face. He's too vain to do it as a comicky fashion statement.)

    Hmm.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by FHIZ View Post
    Joker thinks Batman's allies make him weak.
    taking that idea on its own I completely reject it

    however viewing it from joker's perspective, it makes sense that he would associate mental illness with strength
    Grandparents dead - please no jokes

    make mine DC, thanks

  15. #75
    Dark Knight Detective DarkKnghtJared's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro315 View Post
    I enjoyed this preview tremendously. Then suddenly out of nowhere I remembered that Joker doesn't have a face. It's kind of hard to take pseudo-seriously.

    Thematically, artistically, creatively, whatever ... Joker's face is his money-maker. I mean, psychologically - the reason he is so traumatized and scarred is because of vanity-reversal. The tragedy is that this unfunny guy has to live with looking like a clown for the rest of his life. Without the face of a Joker playing card ... he's not really the Joker anymore.

    I hope Snyder's train of thought goes in the same direction. I think it might, but who can say until it's all said and done.

    But then, what do you do when you're a pale white guy with green hair and a bloody red face? Is that really better than having the face of a clown you have a love/hate relationship with? Joker is vain, and relishes his "public image" more than anybody. No face?

    Where's the motivation for cutting your face off? "Oh, because he's cuckoo-nutso, of course!" isn't going to cut it. The move to take off his own face fundamentally undermines his Joker-ness (which can work, in story, but means they have to dare to tread in having actual motivations for Joker, and connective threads from his Pre-Joker, Jack days that have been buried in the back of his mind for years since his accident and have manifested in a self-hatred so heavy that he'd mutilate his own face. He's too vain to do it as a comicky fashion statement.)

    Hmm.
    I sincerely doubt that this will end with Joker not having some semblance a face back on at the end. As for the reason why he would do it...if the Joker is a vain man, and Batman cares so much about his family...what if Joker's plot at some point involves Bruce having to do something to sever his ties to the family completely, else the city dies? "Do it. It's easy, Bats...as easy as cutting your face off." I dunno, first thing that came to mind--but I would imagine that Snyder's thought of this when he was creating this story, and I'm sure he'll have Joker explicitly tell the reader his motivation for it.

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