AvX Consequences #5 *Spoilers*

[Mikey Brown]

A hard working, imaginative writer could make it one.

Sure, maybe in a novel, but this still is superhero comics.

Ask the people who are killed on them.

They usually turn out to be insane criminals and terrorists. I'm fine with them being killed.

When I see lazy work I say so. Crusher Creel showing up so that Carol can have a bright moment in battle (he was once powerful and dangerous enough to battle all of the Avengers, but now he's easy to take down), She-Hulk forgetting how to fight and everything she knows about the law so that Rogue can look good beating her easily and have an excuse to join (temporarily) Scott's side, Carol looking weak against Rogue so that Rogue can see how bad Cyke's side is and switch sides, Cyclop's being put into a bad place so that we can see - really, really, really see because we wouldn't see it otherwise- that he has no choice but to go on the run... In my opinion short cuts and lazy writing because the writers and editors are in a hurry. You can swallow them with ease, that is how you read and I don't mind that, but it's not how I read. In another thread I contrasted the difference between having villains who actually are threatening as opposed to just sticking a villain in as a sounding board/plot point for the characters convenience. It's a lot better and makes for a more complex and satisfying read to me than when a writer stuffs everything into a few pages.

You don't point out lazy writing ever, you say something is lazy because you didn't like it. But that does not make it bad or lazy. Crusher Creel has been super powerful sometimes and is jobbed out sometimes for years, (in fact that 100% describes his character) way before the incident you are talking about, not entirely sure the about She-Hulk/Rogue thing and the Cyclops thing is totally plausible and was actually a very good story and there's way more to the story than you described here. In fact if that's all you thought this story was about then you might just be a bad/lazy reader.

In the very first book they talk about them still not having decided what to do with him, and nothing in the whole series changed that

He's in a jail. Did you really need to see his arrest report?

[mikekerrIII]

He's in a jail. Did you really need to see his arrest report?

In the MU being in jail has nothing to do with being charged with a crime or even being under legal arrest. S they specifically state that they don't know what they are going to do with him

[mikekerrIII]

Yet.

Doesn't need to be if he's not being questioned by LEO.

That we know of.

Wouldn't have happened for a long time no matter what.

Remind me again what was illegal about holding him? You're also presuming (prematurely) that he would have been held under American law subject to American constitutional protections. I daresay that most of what happened occurred outside of US territory.

Captain America and Stark are both agents of the government o so he would have to have n been Miradized.

He was being held in a US prison, at the direction of the US government, That would not apply if he was held in a international court, and the US refuses to allow its s citizens to be transferred to the international criminal coourt/

If their were not charges pressed he could have walked out under a writ within hours. The amount of time they can hold you pending charges is measured in hours.

[RDMacQ]

Captain America and Stark are both agents of the government o so he would have to have n been Miradized.

He was being held in a US prison, at the direction of the US government, That would not apply if he was held in a international court, and the US refuses to allow its s citizens to be transferred to the international criminal coourt/

If their were not charges pressed he could have walked out under a writ within hours. The amount of time they can hold you pending charges is measured in hours.

You do realize that people being arrested don't have to be read the Miranda Warning, right? That it's only a warning for people who are to be interrogated? And that all that not being read a Miranda Warning is that anything said by the person afterward can't be used in court against them?

Cyclops straight up murdered a guy in front of a bunch of witnesses who can testify to that in court. Doesn't matter if Cyclops was mirandized or not. He can be arrested on that alone.

[Mark_S]

Sure, maybe in a novel, but this still is superhero comics.

How little you demand from a medium that has so much potential.

[XPac]

In the MU being in jail has nothing to do with being charged with a crime or even being under legal arrest. S they specifically state that they don't know what they are going to do with him

Don't know what to do with him doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't been charged with any crimes. That could mean any number of things.

[mikekerrIII]

Don't know what to do with him doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't been charged with any crimes. That could mean any number of things.

If he has been charged the next step is a trial so there would be no indecision at all

[XPac]

If he has been charged the next step is a trial so there would be no indecision at all

Potentially there are dozens of different things they might be referring to. Where he's being held, where he's being tried (in a US court or some sort of international one as he did threaten the entire planet), and logistically all sorts of other things. Saying that he wasn't charged is one possible interpretation to what was said... but the fact of the matter is that the book never states that. We're given a fairly vague statement which can be interpreted many different ways.

Realistically if he hasn't been charged, why wouldn't he be? He certainly committed enough unlawful acts to justify an arrest. And Steve did tell him he was under arrrest when they tried taking him in in AvX 11.

[RDMacQ]

Potentially there are dozens of different things they might be referring to. Where he's being held, where he's being tried (in a US court or some sort of international one as he did threaten the entire planet), and logistically all sorts of other things. Saying that he wasn't charged is one possible interpretation to what was said... but the fact of the matter is that the book never states that. We're given a fairly vague statement which can be interpreted many different ways.

Realistically if he hasn't been charged, why wouldn't he be? He certainly committed enough unlawful acts to justify an arrest. And Steve did tell him he was under arrrest when they tried taking him in in AvX 11.

Also, if Cyclops IS the head of an "independent state,"- as many argued he was during AvX since they also argued that Utopia was "its own sovereign nation"- then that would mean he isn't a US Citizen and therefore not permitted to the same privileges that said citizens possess. If he willingly stepped outside the bounds of US jurisdiction, then his actions could be considered terrorist actions on not only the US but also other independent nations. And therefore, as a terrorist, he is not subject to the same articles of law the prisoners of war would receive.

[Fluffyblade]

Also, if Cyclops IS the head of an "independent state,"- as many argued he was during AvX since they also argued that Utopia was "its own sovereign nation"- then that would mean he isn't a US Citizen and therefore not permitted to the same privileges that said citizens possess. If he willingly stepped outside the bounds of US jurisdiction, then his actions could be considered terrorist actions on not only the US but also other independent nations. And therefore, as a terrorist, he is not subject to the same articles of law the prisoners of war would receive.

There is such a thing as dual citizenship. Him being the head of a state would not exempt him from at the sametime being a US Citizen.

[Nightwing15]

You do realize that people being arrested don't have to be read the Miranda Warning, right? That it's only a warning for people who are to be interrogated? And that all that not being read a Miranda Warning is that anything said by the person afterward can't be used in court against them?

Cyclops straight up murdered a guy in front of a bunch of witnesses who can testify to that in court. Doesn't matter if Cyclops was mirandized or not. He can be arrested on that alone.

If that's the case they can't use the "I'd do it all again" and the "I assume full responsability" against him. Now I understand why Scott and the goverment were sure the "possessed defence" would work. The only things that could put it in doubt are not admissible.

Also, if Cyclops IS the head of an "independent state,"- as many argued he was during AvX since they also argued that Utopia was "its own sovereign nation"- then that would mean he isn't a US Citizen and therefore not permitted to the same privileges that said citizens possess. If he willingly stepped outside the bounds of US jurisdiction, then his actions could be considered terrorist actions on not only the US but also other independent nations. And therefore, as a terrorist, he is not subject to the same articles of law the prisoners of war would receive.

US citizens don't lose their US citizenship by acquiring foreign citizenship unless they renounce it officially.
And if Utopia is an indipendent state or at least not part of the US (and I think it is or, among other things, the reference to international law in AVX #3 would not make sense) could a US court judge him for something that happened on Utopia? I'm not an expert, but I doubt it.

[davew128]

Captain America and Stark are both agents of the government o so he would have to have n been Miradized.

Not if they aren't questioning him with regards to a crime. Moreover, who's to say he WASN'T?

[davew128]

You do realize that people being arrested don't have to be read the Miranda Warning, right? That it's only a warning for people who are to be interrogated? And that all that not being read a Miranda Warning is that anything said by the person afterward can't be used in court against them?

Cyclops straight up murdered a guy in front of a bunch of witnesses who can testify to that in court. Doesn't matter if Cyclops was mirandized or not. He can be arrested on that alone.

Stop applying logic to someone who's nose is sniffinf Cyclops's posterior.