AvX Consequences #5 *Spoilers*

[Mikey Brown]

Uncanny x men is always flagship in the x universe that's CANON

Not true. Morrison's New X-Men was the flagship book instead of Austen's Uncanny. Same with Whedon's Astonishing, instead of Claremont's Uncanny. When Claremont started X-Men with Jim Lee, Uncanny definately was not the flagship book, hell even Liefeld's X-Force was more of a flagship book than Uncanny at the time. There's several more instances and I'd do the research if I really cared but I proved my point.

[Mikey Brown]

That's your opinion, I disagree. You can have a high position of power and responsibility and still have some regard for the individual and civil rights. We've all seen what they've done.

That certainly doesn't make for an interesting story though.

[Mikey Brown]

'Truly wrong' is a highly subjective level of judgement in my opinion. Fury was head of SHIELD and SHIELD has had enough black opps operations going to blot out the sun.

Since when is black ops a bad thing?

[Mikey Brown]

And Cyke has not even been charged with a crime yet, that was stated in AvX 1

Yeah, he hasn't been charged with anything. I mean, there was just a mini series published about him being in jail for......something.......maybe that something would be a........crime? Nah, that's crazy.

[Mikey Brown]

It's certainly not true that EVERYONE in EVERY instance can get away with breaking the law. Heroes apprehend villains all the time.

But if you're a character like Magik that's going to be actively used in a book, odds are good you're not going to be arrested and put in jail for obviously functional storytelling reasons. That's just how it is. There's no perfect middle ground there. I don't think you can tell stories where no one breaks the law, nor do I think you can tell stories where everyone serves a proper jail sentence every time they break it. That's not to say they can't do it a bit more often than they do.... but essentially this is how comics need to work. It's not necessarily fair, but ultimately that's not necessarily the most important consideration when you're making comics.

Not only that but it's entertaining. Stories are made to entertain people. A 5 issue mini about Cyclops sitting in jail doing nothing would be absolutely pointless. This mini set up future storylines, shows you exactly how far Cyke is willing to go for mutants now. It amazes me how some can totally overlook that.

[Mikey Brown]

Don't need explanations, just pointing out a fact that I have observed time and time again. I expect the Wrecking Crew and the Sinister Six to do the crime, do about five seconds of jail time and then go back out when another writer needs them. Like Crusher Creel in the latest Ms. Marvel series. I accept the fact that the writers use them as props and that there are no real reasons for their actions. I consider it a lazy way to write the villains but I accept it. But for the most part so long as you have the right backing, what Bruce Willis once called "The Juice" in a Miami Vice episode, then there are really no laws except the law of who can hit the hardest. So anyone with the right pr and the right fan base can do anything and be excused with very few lasting consequences.

Is there anything that comic writers can do where you won't call them lazy?

[Mikey Brown]

Good point.

Nick Fury as well.

[Mark_S]

That certainly doesn't make for an interesting story though.

A hard working, imaginative writer could make it one.

[Mark_S]

Since when is black ops a bad thing?

Ask the people who are killed on them.

[Mark_S]

Is there anything that comic writers can do where you won't call them lazy?

When I see lazy work I say so. Crusher Creel showing up so that Carol can have a bright moment in battle (he was once powerful and dangerous enough to battle all of the Avengers, but now he's easy to take down), She-Hulk forgetting how to fight and everything she knows about the law so that Rogue can look good beating her easily and have an excuse to join (temporarily) Scott's side, Carol looking weak against Rogue so that Rogue can see how bad Cyke's side is and switch sides, Cyclop's being put into a bad place so that we can see - really, really, really see because we wouldn't see it otherwise- that he has no choice but to go on the run... In my opinion short cuts and lazy writing because the writers and editors are in a hurry. You can swallow them with ease, that is how you read and I don't mind that, but it's not how I read. In another thread I contrasted the difference between having villains who actually are threatening as opposed to just sticking a villain in as a sounding board/plot point for the characters convenience. It's a lot better and makes for a more complex and satisfying read to me than when a writer stuffs everything into a few pages.

[jarrod]

Yeah, he hasn't been charged with anything. I mean, there was just a mini series published about him being in jail for......something.......maybe that something would be a........crime? Nah, that's crazy.

He wasn't charged, mirandized, given counsel, given a trial... he was basically being held (illegally) until the legal recourse could be decided. Different standards for mutants I guess, heil furher.

[Mark_S]

He wasn't charged, mirandized, given counsel, given a trial... he was basically being held (illegally) until the legal recourse could be decided. Different standards for mutants I guess, heil furher.

A few panels or a page of various factions of the government arguing the legality of what to do with him with Steve trying to find a middle ground only to be over ruled would have solved things nicely.

[davew128]

He wasn't charged

Yet.

mirandized

Doesn't need to be if he's not being questioned by LEO.

given counsel

That we know of.

given a trial

Wouldn't have happened for a long time no matter what.

... he was basically being held (illegally) until the legal recourse could be decided. Different standards for mutants I guess, heil furher.

Remind me again what was illegal about holding him? You're also presuming (prematurely) that he would have been held under American law subject to American constitutional protections. I daresay that most of what happened occurred outside of US territory.

[jackolover]

When I see lazy work I say so. Crusher Creel showing up so that Carol can have a bright moment in battle (he was once powerful and dangerous enough to battle all of the Avengers, but now he's easy to take down), She-Hulk forgetting how to fight and everything she knows about the law so that Rogue can look good beating her easily and have an excuse to join (temporarily) Scott's side, Carol looking weak against Rogue so that Rogue can see how bad Cyke's side is and switch sides, Cyclop's being put into a bad place so that we can see - really, really, really see because we wouldn't see it otherwise- that he has no choice but to go on the run... In my opinion short cuts and lazy writing because the writers and editors are in a hurry. You can swallow them with ease, that is how you read and I don't mind that, but it's not how I read. In another thread I contrasted the difference between having villains who actually are threatening as opposed to just sticking a villain in as a sounding board/plot point for the characters convenience. It's a lot better and makes for a more complex and satisfying read to me than when a writer stuffs everything into a few pages.

Did you read those AVX VS books? You'll notice that those contests you exampled were similar contests, and those never went to plan. The reason hero vs hero contests don't go to plan, is that a hero gets under another heroes skin, and makes them do silly things. I don't see that as lazy writing, but true to form in those contests. I was entranced with the VS books just for that quality. She-Hulk will lose to Rogue because Rogue is a hero and she beats opponents. She-Hulk isn't used to being beat.

The same thing happened in Civil War, where heroes were placed in situations they had no answer for, so they made poor decisions that were criticised as being out of character. That wasn't it at all. Cyke was never in the position where his whole world had just been turned upside down and he couldn't take charge of mutant concerns in the way he would like. The world had moved away from his comfort zone and now Cyke has to decide what he wants to do. This is drama. This is not lazy writing.

[mikekerrIII]

Yeah, he hasn't been charged with anything. I mean, there was just a mini series published about him being in jail for......something.......maybe that something would be a........crime? Nah, that's crazy.

In the very first book they talk about them still not having decided what to do with him, and nothing in the whole series changed that