Fourth World

[sportsguy831]

I've been very tempted recently to get Jack Kirby's DC stuff, especially his Fourth World. I've been interested in the omnibus and it's been floating in and out of my Amazon cart for a while. However I'm really only totally interested in Mister Miracle and New Gods with Jimmy Olsen and Forever People on the fringe. So is it worth it or not.

[Eric Chang]

So is it worth it or not.

are we supposed to convince you somehow? just buy the first volume and give it a go

[sportsguy831]

are we supposed to convince you somehow? just buy the first volume and give it a go

But I want to hear opinions on it and I don't want to waste money on it incase I don't like it.

[berk]

I think it's one of the greatest things ever done in "mainstream" (Marvel and DC) comics. But I think you might need to read all of it to get the full benefit: the New Gods series set-up the a lot of the background and basic mythology that informs everything that happens in the other books. Those other series can still be enjoyed on their own, but you'll be losing a lot of depth.

[Babylon23]

Kirby's Fourth World is my single favourite comic run of all time. I'd highly recommend it, especially if you're a Kirby fan.

New Gods is really the standout book from the run, containing the big, epic war story. Mr. Miracle is also excellent and a little more of a character story than New Gods . Forever People is greatly underrated, especially in its early issues. Forever People falters when Deadman is introduced towards the end of the run (an editorial edict forced on Kirby IIRC) but the final issue is excellent.

Jimmy Olsen is just bizarre. It's a lot of fun, and the early issues are the strongest, but overall it's the weakest part of the fourth world saga.

[Desaad]

I think it's one of the greatest things ever done in comics, period.

Subtle, nuanced, complex, relevant, bombastic, kinetic, endlessly creative. More is accomplished in each issue of a New Gods/Mister Miracle/Forever People/Jimmy Olsen than is accomplished in most 6 issue story arcs today.

What Kirby was doing there was so far ahead of its time, we still haven't caught up. The promise of his work, the complexity of his characters and the way he presents them and the layered nature of his ideas there wouldn't be truly followed up on until writers like Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison emerged some decades after (in the mainstreamish).

Just get this.

[T Hedge Coke]

Buy it! Buy it! Buy it!

Take. Read. Know.

[berk]

I think it's one of the greatest things ever done in comics, period.

True. I tend to assume people on the DC and Marvel boards aren't that interested in comics outside the Big 2, but that isn't fair, of course.

[Mr. Holmes]

Just considering how popular Kirby's Marvel world building became, the Fourth World really does deserve some more recognition. Wayyy ahead of its time.

[Desaad]

They are built upon fundamentally different frameworks with fundamentally different goals and drives, so I don't blame readers for liking one but not the other.

It's a bit like saying that fans of Joyce's "Dubliners" will love "Finnegan's Wake". Same author, but in some senses completely different authors.

[Mr. Holmes]

I guess so, obviously it isn't anything like Captain America..or even Thor it's closest counterpart. But I still think the appeal (or potential appeal) is pretty broad, so I'm surprised it didn't catch on as much as it could have.

[Desaad]

I'm perhaps surprised that Orion didn't catch on in particular.

I think what happened, to some extent, was that under Kirby sales were decent but the characters were popular enough that DC didn't want them destroyed, which is what Kirby planned to do. They canceled the book out from under him in an effort to stave off such an end.

But no writer that came after, save arguably one, was able to understand what he was doing and give anything even approaching a satisfying continuation of that story. He had built them to be too complex, to intellectual. Too much of their appeal was in their subtlety, the ideas BEHIND the ideas, and so the mythology could never gain purchase.

I also think, on some level, people recognize when they aren't 'getting' everything in a narrative; I know I did when I was younger, and still do now when it happens. That used to spur me to greater interest and awe (and still does), but for many it's irksome, perhaps even belittling.

[Froggy]

i've always harbored this fantasy of seeing the fourth world saga animated

like not DCAU style but in a standalone type of universe, or even somehow mirroring it's DC Origins

Orion/New Gods storyline would make a kickass film IMO, if only cause of the balls out action Orion would give us

[dixoeileen]

However I'm really only totally interested in Mister Miracle and New Gods with Jimmy Olsen and Forever People on the fringe.

[berk]

I'm not surprised it didn't catch on with superhero fans, because on the surface it looks like a superhero book, with the costumes and fights, but it doesn't really fit the pattern of most superhero stories, and I think fans of characters like Superman end up feeling dissatisfied if they ever do give it a chance. Same thing with The Eternals, though a very different concept to the New Gods in most ways: fans don't get the kind of emotional pay-offs they've come to expect from superhero comics, so they don't know what to make of it. And since most Marvel/DC fans (and, it seems, writers and editors) are interested in superheroes and these comics kind of look like superhero comics, they tend to assume that The New Gods and The Eternals are bad superhero comics rather than something different altogether.