Why do some disagree with the whole "Bruce is the mask" thing?

[yaseen101]

Marksman: you need to look up what that word means.
Unlike batarangs, guns aren'rt balanced for throwing. It is actually completely impossible to aim them at all unles you're throwing them at a large target right in front of you; he's throwing it at miniscule tagret 50 meters away. Even if he's practiced his gun-throwing for years in the batcave, he's not hitting anything.

But I have already that just shooting the Joker is also an option. Why are you acting like 'gun throwing' is the only thing I'm advocating for? Besides which, whether or not 'gun throwing' is plausible is dependant on the story and the internal logistics of the universe.

Joker don't scare easy, especially when he's completely in control of the situation.
And there's the "I've got 99.9% chanvce to shoot him dead" gamble as opposed to the "I've got 15% chance to talk him down gamble" or the "I don't even have a snowball's chance in hell" gamble of hitting his hand with a thrown gun at 50 meters.

I was just talking about how he has handled similar situations in the past not as options for the Joker.

He doesn't have to shoot the Joker dead when he can just shoot him in the knee caps.

Or indeed when it is flatout stated several times by, I think Chuck Dixon, that Bruce Wayne never ever sleeps with any of the myriad of supermodels he dates. But somehow escapes being gossiped about being the gayest billionaire in Gotham.

I know...

I heard Rucka once proposed that exact same story idea but was turned down.

[carabas]

Wasn't Son of the Demon thrown out of canon later? I thought they removed it when they started to build Catwoman up as his main love interest again. Kingdom Come and it's sequel even had Ibn as the product of SOTD.

Kingdom Come is an Elseworlds that showed pretty much all of the main DC heroes losing their way.
And I think they started to build up Catwoman some time before Son Of The Demon was even written.

Denny O'Neill has addressed that, as something that happens sometimes, but not every time. Morrison went flat out for "Alfred, I'm just going to have casual relationships" and the Talia, Jett, Catwoman stuff. The current Catwoman opened with Batsex so important it took the end of the first issue and the beginning of the second. Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle both talked about the abstaining Bruce needing to be exploded out of canon, and Grant's done at least some stories that implied Bruce does have a sex life.

Sure, now. Morrison talked about bringing back the hairy-chested sexgod or something like that. But back when Dixon and the like ruled the Batman books...

Chuck Dixon has some ideas about sex. And, sex and comics. They're interesting, but I don't find myself nodding in agreement with him much.

I wouldn't say that his ideas are interesting.

[T Hedge Coke]

Who, so far, as done stories where Bruce just isn't very good with guns? He messed it up in Adam's Odyssey. He has trouble with a pistol in DKR. Anything else?

It's not like having a good eye makes an untrained shooter brilliant enough to fire rounds into a moving human being and be sure they're not crippling them.

[carabas]

Who, so far, as done stories where Bruce just isn't very good with guns? He messed it up in Adam's Odyssey. He has trouble with a pistol in DKR. Anything else?

It's not like having a good eye makes an untrained shooter brilliant enough to fire rounds into a moving human being and be sure they're not crippling them.

Lots of people have done stories with Batman being very well trained indeed in the use of firearms though. Like Deadshot almost good.

[T Hedge Coke]

Lots of people have done stories with Batman being very well trained indeed in the use of firearms though. Like Deadshot almost good.

I know. And I don't expect them to be all in-line with each other, certainly. I was just momentarily curious.

[carabas]

I know. And I don't expect them to be all in-line with each other, certainly. I was just momentarily curious.

Well, I can't think of any stories at all that have Bruce as being rubbish with guns. Except maybe Odissey that I have not read but by all accounts is not very well written.

[Vil_Dee]

I subscribe to Bruce is a mask. He's obsessed with doing his Batman thang and you know he would have the cowl on his head 24/7 if he didn't have to worry about his secret identity. The personality he demonstrates when he's Bruce Wayne isn't his true personality. He's not shallow, carefree and fun loving. How he acts when he's Batman, that's his real personality. I mean, this has been Batman's portrayal since TDKR. I actually find it a lot more intriguing to read about a character that is so consumed with his mission that he avoids and shuns normalcy, than a Tony Stark with bat ears.

Like really, what is the appeal of a happy Batman, who smiles while he punches criminals and then goes home and plays trivial pursuit with his harem of Robins? It flies in the face of his whole flippin motivation. He's doing all of this because he saw his parents senselessly gunned down in front of him, he's not doing it for fun! Who the hell wants to see Bruce retire, get married and have kids? It's disgusting.

[T Hedge Coke]

Like really, what is the appeal of a happy Batman, who smiles while he punches criminals and then goes home and plays trivial pursuit with his harem of Robins? It flies in the face of his whole flippin motivation.

You just described DKR, though. He smiles all the way through that comic and he's, basically, having the time of his life. And he gets another Robin. He even hugs her.

His motivation is to help save people and to dress up all scary and intimidate criminals. His motivation's not to frown and punch people 24/7. That's not Batman, that's Rocky 4.

[jgiannantoni05]

I subscribe to Bruce is a mask. He's obsessed with doing his Batman thang and you know he would have the cowl on his head 24/7 if he didn't have to worry about his secret identity.

That's just it, Bruce CHOSE to keep his secret identity, his Bruce identity. He could have faked Bruce's death or something, but he didn't choose to do that. He has more to his life, he chose to have more to his life than punching criminals.

The personality he demonstrates when he's Bruce Wayne isn't his true personality. He's not shallow, carefree and fun loving. How he acts when he's Batman, that's his real personality.

As someone once put well, there is two Bruce's, the public one (which is fake), and the real one that was there before Batman and the one that pursues other things in life like love and friends and such.

[Vil_Dee]

You just described DKR, though. He smiles all the way through that comic and he's, basically, having the time of his life. And he gets another Robin. He even hugs her.

His motivation is to help save people and to dress up all scary and intimidate criminals. His motivation's not to frown and punch people 24/7. That's not Batman, that's Rocky 4.

He was happy because he came out of retirement and was back to being himself again, instead of trying to live a normal life as Bruce which he wasn't feeling. And that smile got wiped off pretty damn fast.

That's just it, Bruce CHOSE to keep his secret identity, his Bruce identity. He could have faked Bruce's death or something, but he didn't choose to do that. He has more to his life, he chose to have more to his life than punching criminals.


As someone once put well, there is two Bruce's, the public one (which is fake), and the real one that was there before Batman and the one that pursues other things in life like love and friends and such.

That's because the Bruce identity allows him access to places Batman can't go. I mean, it be really weird for Batman to show up at a board meeting at wayne enterprises or be seen at a charity function eating canapes.

I don't know what Bruce there was before Batman, seeing as the whole ball got rolling the moment his parents got murdered when he was a little kid. I mean sure he made an attempt to have some semblance of normal life, but it hasn't worked out because he was unwilling to give up TEH Batman. And Bruce doesn't have any friends. . .

[Leocomix]

Batman is a mask and has no personality beyond being a d*ck to Gordon while Wayne is a sincere philanthropist. This isn't fakery.
Only a child could think Wayne is a mask.

[mmehshow]

It also means making him legally insane.

He dresses up as a freaking bat!

[Nite-Wing]

The only problem with Bruce Wayne not being a mask is I'd hate to believe Bruce really is some smarmy frat boy womanizing billionaire. He's no where near as stupid or inept as some stories like to pass him up as. I mean in some ways Bruce Wayne and Batman are as different as Clark Kent and Superman. You don't get that big of a difference by chance.

I mean he's either faking it or he really has no aspiration to be himself anymore and he's always playing a part.

[s_stabeler]

personally, i think there's more than one mask. 1) Batman's a mask, since Batman has always been primarily about intimidation. I doubt Bruce is like that, although it would explain why every single Robin is screwed up on some level (Dick ignores the past too much, which makes non-cape friends difficult at best, Jason... has several issues. Tim, arguably the least messed up, still has characters to WTF to him fairly regularly ( bringing together the Teen Titans then planning on leaving them after the team fought harvest? That was an asshole move) Damian... the kid seriously needs a good therapist. That's all i'll say about the newest Robin. As for Steph, if you count her as a Robin (I do) she used one of Batman's plans without fully checking to see she could actually pull it off in order to try to win back the Robin role after being fired. She managed to get rid of most of her issues with some time spent in africa.) 2) Bruce Wayne, Playboy. I don't think Bruce is the idiot he acts outside the suit. At the most basic, Bruce is able to skim off large amounts of money from Wayne Enterprises to fund Batman. A company the size of Wayne Enterprises has to file accounts like a public company, even if it's a private company. An idiot would get caught within a year by the auditors. Sure, I imagine Lucius Fox is a great help, but he can't do all the coverup.

In short, i think both Batman adn the Playboy are masks for the 'true' Bruce Wayne. I don't, whoever, know that the true Bruce IS. ( I would guess intelligent and caring, but can't guess much else)

[thwhtGuardian]

I really don't see either side as a mask, that just seems way too simplistic. For me Bruce is just a human being, and as such he presents certain facets of himself in certain situations; that's just the way we roll for some reason.

Think about it for just a second; do you behave the same way at work as you do while out while out with your friends on a Friday night? Do you act the same way when you're around your girlfriend or boyfriend as you do when you're with their parents? How about when you're with your grandparents, do you behave the same way then as you do when your with your friends or your parents? I think most people would answer "No" to all those questions and yet I doubt they'd say that they were being fake in any of those scenarios, you're still definitely you in each of those situations you just act differently because the unspoken rules of social interactions dictate certain stances to be taken.

And it seems no different with Bruce, it's just the various parts of his social circle are much different than our own so it seems more extreme.