Ultimate Beyonder

[thetrellan]

The magician could be the beyonder

Doesn't really work for me, since the Beyonder was either an all-powerful being from a neighboring universe or something like a sentient cosmic cube, depending on which you prefer, but whatever he is, he comes from Beyond humanity in some way, while the Magician is a mutant.

Of course his origins could be a fabrication. He's known for manipulating thoughts. Maybe his parents never really existed? Maybe. But I'd rather see him as Ultimate Phoenix than Ultimate Beyonder.

[wayfarejourneyman]

I really like the idea of an Ultimate Beyonder, particularly as a wise being. Alternately, you could go with an entity that is dedicated to getting humans/mutants to move beyon their limits and become something else. Morality holding you back - the Beyonder will try to push you past it. Powers under developed? The Beyonder will run you through a gauntlet that will either kill you or give you control over your powers.

[Robbie_Jee]

I really like the idea of an Ultimate Beyonder, particularly as a wise being. Alternately, you could go with an entity that is dedicated to getting humans/mutants to move beyon their limits and become something else. Morality holding you back - the Beyonder will try to push you past it. Powers under developed? The Beyonder will run you through a gauntlet that will either kill you or give you control over your powers.

I think Ultimate Xorn is a really good version of this.

[Melab]

Lol it was pretty funny but that's Karma lol. As for the beyonders I thought we had them right. We found out that we the readers were the beyonders and the watchers were protecting us or something.

Where is this stated? Are you sure that your mind is not mashing facts and things you've read before together? I find that that happens a lot with minutia.

I really like the idea of an Ultimate Beyonder, particularly as a wise being. Alternately, you could go with an entity that is dedicated to getting humans/mutants to move beyon their limits and become something else. Morality holding you back - the Beyonder will try to push you past it. Powers under developed? The Beyonder will run you through a gauntlet that will either kill you or give you control over your powers.

That "become something else" stuff is overdone and is best left to the mainstream Celestials. Morality is a GOOD thing; when it isn't holding you back you get a villain.

[thetrellan]

I really like the idea of an Ultimate Beyonder, particularly as a wise being. Alternately, you could go with an entity that is dedicated to getting humans/mutants to move beyon their limits and become something else. Morality holding you back - the Beyonder will try to push you past it. Powers under developed? The Beyonder will run you through a gauntlet that will either kill you or give you control over your powers.

If you want to see something like this I highly recommend the Earth X series, if you haven't read it yet.. or even if you have. Although prompted by the release of Kingdom Come, it is extremely well thought out. It's also a rare event in that didn't actually cross over to existing titles (which isn't to say it had no effect, because it clearly did, if only to make you wonder if it might be the actual future of the MU).

[Melab]

Sinatra as an old man would work. To contrast him with the childish 616 version, you could make him wise instead of foolish. Give him the power to peer into alternate possibilities, but not actual realities, if you prefer. Perhaps he is confused about why, say, Reed Richards is an altruist in one universe, yet a psychopath in the UU. If fact, make the desire to understand a lie, and his truer, secret purpose to teach. That would be manipulative, and so in keeping with the spirit of the character, yet far away from what made the original suck so bad.

And I agree that Mixy is a lame character. That's why the truth of the comparison hurts. Both characters behaved like spoiled children, just one looked like something out of Popeye and had to obey ridiculously stupid rules while the other looked like Elvis and respected no rules.

All that said, though, I think the biggest problem I had with the idea of the Beyonder was one of execution. It was poorly written and illustrated. A more Star Trek inspired rendition (not Q or Trelane, more like the Organians or the aliens who once sentenced the away team to death by turning them into the Clanton gang and trapping them in a simulation of Tombstone, Az.) might work much better.

To my knowledge, there have been no resurrections in the Ultimate Marvel universe. I'm imagining that an Ultimate Beyonder would revive some characters temporarily to serve that greater end. I've even thought up rough dialogue of what he might be like in an example where he dismisses Peter Parker's soul during a chat with Pryde, MJ, or Stacy.

"We gotta move past our illusions, kid. When someone dies it means they're dead. And it's gonna stay like that for a really long time. Yeah, sure, resurrection is possible and what not, and death could easily be some kind of non-fundamental thing, but it heavily carries the impression that it'll stay like that. Again, I'll make another concession for the sake of the argument by admitting that the we-wouldn't-learn-anything-if-we-could revive-the-dead excuse is complete crap. So think of it like this: you define your perfect world down the vibrations of subatomic particles. To maintain that perfection would require the prohibition of any deviation and therefore any change. You'd be frozen in reality and that may just be worse than death."

[thetrellan]

To my knowledge, there have been no resurrections in the Ultimate Marvel universe. I'm imagining that an Ultimate Beyonder would revive some characters temporarily to serve that greater end. I've even thought up rough dialogue of what he might be like in an example where he dismisses Peter Parker's soul during a chat with Pryde, MJ, or Stacy.

"We gotta move past our illusions, kid. When someone dies it means they're dead. And it's gonna stay like that for a really long time. Yeah, sure, resurrection is possible and what not, and death could easily be some kind of non-fundamental thing, but it heavily carries the impression that it'll stay like that. Again, I'll make another concession for the sake of the argument by admitting that the we-wouldn't-learn-anything-if-we-could revive-the-dead excuse is complete crap. So think of it like this: you define your perfect world down the vibrations of subatomic particles. To maintain that perfection would require the prohibition of any deviation and therefore any change. You'd be frozen in reality and that may just be worse than death."

In fact, that has been used in the Twilight Zone as a version of hell: to have everything you ever wanted and not be able to enjoy it, because none of it is genuine or given freely from the heart.

But I just had another thought. If Ultimate Beyonder is as wise as the mainstream one was ignorant, and the Beyonder originally hailed from another universe, then UB could well be the same person, only tens of billions of years older. In other words, the age of a universe which has reached old age. It was a long time ago, but I think Mr. B actually was the universe from which he came.

Whoah, another thought: Maybe he's in the UU to court it. Maybe it's the universe he's really teaching.

But this is very dangerous thinking. It smacks of crossover event.

[Mutant God]

I like the idea of "retcon" Beyonder, an Inhuman/mutant

An Inhuman child who has an X-Gene and has god like powers. A combination of Beyonder/Franklin Richards/Ahura