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  1. #46

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    I haven't seen the Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part I DVD as yet and I'm not sure I will spend the money on it (maybe I can put it on my Christmas wish list). When I read Batman: The Dark Knight as it was originally called, I was excited because it was being done by the same folks who had given me those great Daredevil issues--on the other hand, they had done Ronin, which I found less impressive. By this time I had been reading Batman for twenty years and I had read several stories that theorized about Batman's possible future--not to mention stories about the futures of Superman and other DC characters--so I took it all with a grain of salt. And a good thing, because I could never really believe this story as the definitive possible future for Batman. It seemed more like it was trying to be deliberately subversive of what one should expect at every turn. Right up to that final showdown with Superman. For all those years I had been reading about the great camaraderie between Batman and Superman and this book pretended to piss all over that. Pretended, because I never took any of it seriously. It seemed to be a joke--Miller was having fun pissing on everything and I enjoyed it on that level. I knew that it was totally false to the characters and it was therefore of no consequence. There was no big wow moment for me at the end.

    That's very different from how I read All-Star Superman. While there were moments where I felt that Morrison was deliberately getting the characters wrong (in particular Jimmy Olsen and Steve Lombard), it felt true to the over all spirit of Superman. So when it comes to its big conclusion, that conclusion felt right and therefore much more epic because it drew on my sense of the character. It wasn't just turning everything upside down to get a rise out of me, the reader.

    The DVD was much less effective in that regard, since it didn't take the time to build up the character of Superman and pull on all those associations.

  2. #47
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666MasterOfPuppets View Post
    Of course. I meant a Superman-focused release. He seriously needs that. And he needs this game to kick Arkham City's ass.
    Weren't the people behind those games talking about doing a Superman game?
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  3. #48
    Junior Member TheDarkNut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666MasterOfPuppets View Post
    Of course. I meant a Superman-focused release. He seriously needs that. And he needs this game to kick Arkham City's ass.
    Yeah, I seriously doubt that any super hero game is giong to take down Arkham City for a long time.

  4. #49
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    I don't see that happening any time in the next decade, at least. For one thing, the Arkham City bar is so high that I seriously doubt the next Batman game is going to kick its ass, either. And then there is the larger issue that I think Superman is tougher to do in games. At least he has been up to now. Every game has had to create weak explanations to limit his powers, keep him confined to a certain area, or whatever.

    Even setting him up in an Arkham City-sized open world Metropolis, developers are faced with the problem of having a character who can go anywhere and see anything happening anywhere right from the game's start. He doesn't need to level up or find an item that allows him to reach some previously inaccessible area, because he can fly to any height or simply walk through any wall. It's hard to turn that into a game.
    That's why devs should think a bit outside of the box. You're right about that: Superman can't face "regular" challenges like Batman does. Everything Superman faces needs to be taken up a few notches. They should go wild and have fun with it: Giant robots/monsters, alien armadas, putting out fires, etc.. Like I said, Superman Returns took steps in the right direction, I think. But I believe there was a lack of ambition there. For example, where was The Fortress? And why just Metropolis? OTOH, the Metropolis health bar was kinda brilliant, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Supposedly, the next Batman game following Arkham City is some sort of prequel and features Batman's first meeting with Superman. If so, we'll see how they handle it there. The developers have their work cut out for them, though.
    Yeah, I'll wait and see, too. Supposing that the rumor is true, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    Weren't the people behind those games talking about doing a Superman game?
    What stk said. But Rocksteady made some comments when asked about the possibility of them making a Superman game that made me distrust them completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkNut View Post
    Yeah, I seriously doubt that any super hero game is giong to take down Arkham City for a long time.
    That's what I heard. Isn't that depressing?
    ... The Master Of Puppets has spoken.

    Goodbye León (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

  5. #50
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666MasterOfPuppets View Post
    But Rocksteady made some comments when asked about the possibility of them making a Superman game that made me distrust them completely.
    Were they planning on basing their Superman on Sean Penn in Dead Man Walking?
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  6. #51
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    Were they planning on basing their Superman on Sean Penn in Dead Man Walking?
    Nope. The goddamned BLASPHEMOUS INFIDELS HAD THIS TO SAY:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksteady
    Asked if the studio would ever be tempted to do for DC's Man of Steel what it's done for the Dark Knight - should the opportunity arise - Rocksteady's Dax Ginn told us that Superman is too powerful for his own good.

    "I think Superman is a very difficult character. He’s an incredible character, but the thing about Batman is that he’s so vulnerable, like physically vulnerable," Ginn said in an interview. "The fertile territory of games design is being able to provide the player with opportunities for power, but also letting them know that they’ve got something to lose."

    Batman's abilities are tempered by his own mortality, said the developer. "With Batman, you feel very powerful when you’re surrounded by 25 thugs who’ve just got baseball bats, but give just one of them an assault rifle and it changes the entire dynamic of the fight. But with a character like Superman, that’s not possible. So, I wouldn’t want to throw Batman away because he’s just such a brilliant character to work with, and the psychology of him is just very rich for gameplay."
    Source

    Essentially, and as the article's title from which I pulled the previous quote says, Rocksteady thinks that "Superman is not suited to games".
    ... The Master Of Puppets has spoken.

    Goodbye León (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

  7. #52
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    "give just one of them an assault rifle and it changes the entire dynamic of the fight. But with a character like Superman, that’s not possible"

    Kryptonite bullets? Any of the dozens of super villains he has that are a threat to him (Doomsday, Darkseid, Brainiac, Zod, Fiora, Ursa, Non, other PZ criminals, Mongul Sr5., Mongul Jr., Blaze, Satanus, C'thona, 666, Dominous, Imperiex, Mill. Giants, Mill. Guard, Ultraman, Bizarro, Mxyzptlk and other 5-D imps, Starbreaker, Sun-Eaters, Asmodel, Solaris, Cyborg Superman, Metallo, Titano, Kryptonite Man, Conduit...)?
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  8. #53
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    "give just one of them an assault rifle and it changes the entire dynamic of the fight. But with a character like Superman, that’s not possible"

    Kryptonite bullets? Any of the dozens of super villains he has that are a threat to him (Doomsday, Darkseid, Brainiac, Zod, Fiora, Ursa, Non, other PZ criminals, Mongul Sr5., Mongul Jr., Blaze, Satanus, C'thona, 666, Dominous, Imperiex, Mill. Giants, Mill. Guard, Ultraman, Bizarro, Mxyzptlk and other 5-D imps, Starbreaker, Sun-Eaters, Asmodel, Solaris, Cyborg Superman, Metallo, Titano, Kryptonite Man, Conduit...)?
    I wouldn't get anywhere near the Kryptonite bullets, since they're terribly cliche. Hell, I was going to say that I'd use them as a plot point only but, upon further thought, not even that would work.

    Lobdell mentioned the talking sun of Atkmos (sp?) Prime, the Cosmic Archipelago, etc. Why not use those? Why not use one of the enemies you mentioned? I can see a scene inside Superman's mind created by Manchester Black, a la Matrix (you die in the Matrix, you die for real).

    Well, see what I mean? Those guys have no idea how to deal with Superman. Just give me the reins of the Superman game, WB/DC, and I'll blow your goddamned socks off.
    ... The Master Of Puppets has spoken.

    Goodbye León (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

  9. #54
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Most people base their knowledge on general Superman lore, such as the films and to a lesser degree on the cartoons. Thus their knowledge is limited. I mentioned that earlier with the "Mortal Kombat Vs DC Universe" issues. That's why Batman and Spider-Man have better success in video games than guys like Superman and the Hulk.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666MasterOfPuppets View Post
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    Essentially, and as the article's title from which I pulled the previous quote says, Rocksteady thinks that "Superman is not suited to games".
    That's pretty reasonable. Batman's main weapons are martial arts and detective skills and those are pretty easy to translate whilst loads of superpowers isn't. Doesn't mean they hate the character by any means, just that he isn't suited to the medium that much.

  11. #56
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquacatlungfish View Post
    That's pretty reasonable. Batman's main weapons are martial arts and detective skills and those are pretty easy to translate whilst loads of superpowers isn't. Doesn't mean they hate the character by any means, just that he isn't suited to the medium that much.
    I know they don't hate him. they even said he's great and all. What they said about him not being suited to videogames is what made me raise my eyebrow, because I think that is not true. Thus, I just think that by those comments they are reflecting their inability to understand the character and therefore make a game worthy of him.
    ... The Master Of Puppets has spoken.

    Goodbye León (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

  12. #57
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    That's why Batman and Spider-Man have better success in video games than guys like Superman and the Hulk.
    But the Hulk Smash video game was awesome...
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  13. #58
    Junior Member asiansupes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquacatlungfish View Post
    That's pretty reasonable. Batman's main weapons are martial arts and detective skills and those are pretty easy to translate whilst loads of superpowers isn't. Doesn't mean they hate the character by any means, just that he isn't suited to the medium that much.
    The easiest way to combat this is to step outside the box and create a superpower based "martial art" for Superman. Just imagine him using mid-air grapples, punches, kicks and tosses along with freeze breath and heat vision. His move set would be really cool to pull off especially with visually stunning combos. Kal's creativity with his poers ois partof his fight style. I think "InJustice: Gods Amonst Us" has the right idea so far.

    Alluding to Lobdell's current arc is to add a point of exertion in which Kal would need more solar energy to recharge as he gets hurt continuously or exerts himself physically over time. He necessarilly wouldn't lose his powers as his cells need recharging but the powers lose effectiveness. There would be various ways to solar recharge or sundip but they shouldn't be as easy as flying to the sun or whatever.

    Also, as a reporter, Clark should be able to use his "reporter's instinct" to deduce clues in combination with his astute senses. Ultimately, as a few of you stated before, the villain set has to be a major factor. Making a few of Supes' rogues look cool would be a fun task.

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