Would you read a Brian Wood Ultimate Comics Novel?

[sage6paths]

Can you tell us what it is about?

Yah I would like to know as well so that I can make sure to buy it when it comes out.

[briancwood]

It's probably 2 years away from the point where you can buy it, so no rush. I'll make a huge stink about it when the time comes, though.

b

[Robbie_Jee]

One doesn't require more of anything than the other, though;

OK, let me present an example in how comicbooks and novels are completely different in how they present their scenes. I want to use The Walking Dead as an example, something you and I both love. Issue #48 (WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS) when the Governor stormed the prison wih his troops. Lori and the little baby (I forget her name) get shot as they're running away. They go down. Rick hesitates and wants to go back for them, but Lori gives him a look that tells him to go onwards and forget about her because there's no way of saving her. That look that Lori gave Rick. That determined look of 'Get the fuck outta here.' How would you describe that and how would you seep in the distortion of the environment, such as the loud gunfire and the screams? There's a great deal of techniques in which that scene could be written in a novel. Techniques and literary skills that aren't often even consiered in comicbook writing. The differences in literary skills are vastly unique to each medium.

I hope this example serves you well. It's the best I can do in describing the differences in the two mediums of literature. The differences are huge. If you like I can explain further. There are lot of scenes that can be presented in a variety of clever little ways in novel literature. And viceversa for comicbook writing.

they both require a lot of understanding of literary techniques that are unique to each medium.

Exactly. This has been my main point all along.

This is why I (being bias here) would prefer to read a novel from a novelist, rather than someone who usually writes comicbooks. They're both very different from each other. Like you said, with you're examples of playing a guitar to a piano...

Read something like Watchmen or Daytripper and tell me those writers don't know how to get inside emotions and characters. There's a lot more to a comic character's emotions than just what the artist draws. I could read just the script for Daytripper and find myself on the verge of tears every time. If it was so easy to make a character come to life, there wouldn't be so many comics out there with flat, one-dimensional characters.

Again, you're assuming that I'm trying to downplay the comicbook medium, when in actual fact I've already said that it requires different techniques to writing novels in how they present each scene. In a novel, you present each scene, constantly having to figure out how much detail is needed to describe certain aspects and more importantly, what order to explain them in. It's a constant battle of re-ordering paragraphs, chopping details down and figuring out how to open each depiction or what to open with. Like briancwood said, when writing a novel, it's often about writing with less description. This is a skill in itself that's very different to comicbook writing.

As for trying it - I couldn't write either, so that suggestion really doesn't mean anything to me. But as a reader, I can tell that both take an equal amount of effort. It's like becoming a master guitar player or pianist. To say one is easier than the other just isn't true; they share some sets of skills, but they both require things that are completely unique.

You make these kinds of comparisons a lot. But they don't really help either of us.

I know you've never even attempted to write either comic or novel. That much is obvious. But I'm still surprised you don't at least recognise their massively different sets of literary requirments. I don't see why you have to be in such disagreement when you haven't even attempted yo write either medium. I hold comicbook writing in a very high regard, when it's done well. It's different in how it presents it's scenes, and it's unique in that way. For that, I applaud how it is able to it's present scenes. I mentioned this in my first post on this thread. I think you may have missed it because you seem to think I'm hating on comicbook literature. Which I most certainly am not. I'd prefer it if you left your assumptions out of this. Thanks.

[sage6paths]

OK, let me present an example in how comicbooks and novels are completely different in how they present their scenes. I want to use The Walking Dead as an example, something you and I both love. Issue #48 (WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS) when the Governor stormed the prison wih his troops. Lori and the little baby (I forget her name) get shot as they're running away. They go down. Rick hesitates and wants to go back for them, but Lori gives him a look that tells him to go onwards and forget about her because there's no way of saving her. That look that Lori gave Rick. That determined look of 'Get the fuck outta here.' How would you describe that and how would you seep in the distortion of the environment, such as the loud gunfire and the screams? There's a great deal of techniques in which that scene could be written in a novel. Techniques and literary skills that aren't often even consiered in comicbook writing. The differences in literary skills are vastly unique to each medium.

Kinda off-topic but have you read either of Kirkman's books "The Walking Dead: Rise of the Governor" or "The Walking Dead: The Road to Woodbury"? How would you rate his books compared to his comics?

[Robbie_Jee]

@Plawsky - Yeah I've read Watchmen. It's a good book. Ever read a novel called Dune by Frank Herbert? I struggle to see how that could be translated into a comicbook. I seriously doubt it could be done successfully. If you've read it, do you disagree with what I'm saying? Converting Dune from a novel into a comic seems impossible to me. The mediums are just way too different from eachother.

I don't mean less as in word count, but less as in overly descriptive writing. We often have to describe and explain so much minutiae in a script and explain actions in such boring detail, it would be impossible to read as prose. I'm writing a novel now, and compared to a script, its lean and mean. A real pleasure.

b

Yeah, I know that you meant in terms of description. Most often in fictional literature, less is more. Thankyou for your insight on this though. I appreciate the accuracy.

EDIT - I can only imagine how rewarding it must be for you, with your professional comicbook writing talents, and now writing a novel. I find that there's always a wonderful discovery to be had with writing a novel and you even surprise yourself. I have never completed writing a novel, but I have been able to accumilate a repertoire of techniques that I feel I've come up with on my own, and I guess that may be the case for most people who try writing novels too. I love getting to the point where the characters you've created start dictating the events of the story for you, letting go and letting them shape the setting. But then again I expect that's the same with comicbook writing too when you set up your characters and scripts. Going onto various websites to aquire literary techniques for a novel is good, but you learn so much better after applying them and seeing them take effect. After attempting to write fiction, I wonder at the amount of stuff I don't know yet, in comparison to what I've discovered already.

[Robbie_Jee]

Kinda off-topic but have you read either of Kirkman's books "The Walking Dead: Rise of the Governor" or "The Walking Dead: The Road to Woodbury"? How would you rate his books compared to his comics?

Oh I never knew those books existed. I'm actually pretty intigued. Would you recommend them?

[sage6paths]

Oh I never knew those books existed. I'm actually pretty intigued. Would you recommend them?

Rise of the Governer was O.K. but it is kind of clear that Kirkman does comics better then novels but then again I still enjoyed it. I haven't read Road to Woodbury yet so I don't know if I can recommend it or not. At the bottom of the Amazon page there are some customer reviews that might be helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Walking-De...owViewpoints=0

[Plawsky]

This is why I (being bias here) would prefer to read a novel from a novelist, rather than someone who usually writes comicbooks. They're both very different from each other. Like you said, with you're examples of playing a guitar to a piano...

I don't disagree with you, and I've said as much. My issue with your statements is that you're implying that one is easier than the other. I'm not assuming anything about you, I'm going by what you're saying. I don't know how you can read the bolded examples and think anything e

I don't think any comicbook writer, except for maybe Garth Ennis, could convince me to read one of their novels. It's just a completely different ball game, with an enormous range of literary techniques to consider that have no place in comicbook writing. Writing a good novel is like a Mt. Everest of an achievement, with such a sheer volume of ecological aspects to consider, constantly working with the setting and how it effects the characters and in turn, how the characters shape the setting. Writing a good novel is no easy task. It's a headache, frankly. I'm not saying comicbook writers can't do it. But if these writers really want to write an outstanding novel, they'd best be ready to give up all means of social life. It's something that someone must take some consideration about getting into because it acquires a lot of dedication. It's a completely different talent too. If I'm going to read a novel that's worth my time, I'm more than likely to stay away from one that is written by someone who normally writes comicbooks. I also wouldn't read a novel by someone who writes screenplays for films. I would always choose to read a novel from a novelist. But that's just me. :)

Nothing trivial about it. I suggest you try writing a really good novel then, look into all the literary techniques that need to be considered when there aren't any pictures, look and see what you can find on the web and try to get an understanding about the difficulty of bringing a lawfulness to everything you're writing. It's not just about describing what's in a picture. Comicbooks can so easily and so flawlessly make a character feel cool, determined or exciting with a well drawn look on their face, but a novelist has to try so, so much bloody harder to articulate such things. It requires a lot of emotional understanding (emotional intelligence) too, like to the point where you literally feel like you know every feeling that every human has ever felt in the entire history of the world. You've got to get to the point where you actually feel like that. You've got to really know stuff to get those emotions out, make you're literature powerful and emotional without an artist drawing you're pictures for you. I'm not trying to downplay the talent of writing comics in anyway, so you can keep your assumptions to yourself. But writing a novel is in fact a lot more challenging than writing a comicbook. I love comicbooks. What makes you think I'm hating on them? :(

OK, let me present an example in how comicbooks and novels are completely different in how they present their scenes. I want to use The Walking Dead as an example, something you and I both love. Issue #48 (WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS) when the Governor stormed the prison wih his troops. Lori and the little baby (I forget her name) get shot as they're running away. They go down. Rick hesitates and wants to go back for them, but Lori gives him a look that tells him to go onwards and forget about her because there's no way of saving her. That look that Lori gave Rick. That determined look of 'Get the fuck outta here.' How would you describe that and how would you seep in the distortion of the environment, such as the loud gunfire and the screams? There's a great deal of techniques in which that scene could be written in a novel. Techniques and literary skills that aren't often even consiered in comicbook writing. The differences in literary skills are vastly unique to each medium.

It's these two that really get at the point, though:

But writing a novel is in fact a lot more challenging than writing a comicbook.

Techniques and literary skills that aren't often even consiered in comicbook writing.

The first implies - actually, outright states - that writing a comicbook is easier than a novel. For someone who typically writes comicbooks? Sure. I'm sure Bendis would have a tougher time with a novel than with a comicbook, because he's used to the latter. But just the same, someone who writes novels wouldn't have an easy time doing the same with comics.

The second statement really is pretty insulting to comic writers, though. To say that they "don't even consider" literary skills is just plain wrong. Just like Dune might not work as a comic, Watchmen wouldn't have the same impact as a prose novel. But being different doesn't mean they aren't using literary techniques. Watchmen is technically brilliant in both writing and art.

Now, maybe this isn't what you're trying to say at all. If that's the case, you might just need to rethink your wording. However, based on what you're saying, I don't know how anyone could come to a different conclusion.

[Robbie_Jee]

I don't disagree with you, and I've said as much. My issue with your statements is that you're implying that one is easier than the other. I'm not assuming anything about you, I'm going by what you're saying. I don't know how you can read the bolded examples and think anything e

The first implies - actually, outright states - that writing a comicbook is easier than a novel. For someone who typically writes comicbooks? Sure. I'm sure Bendis would have a tougher time with a novel than with a comicbook, because he's used to the latter. But just the same, someone who writes novels wouldn't have an easy time doing the same with comics.

And I wonder whether you've considered what you didn't highlight. Like how a comicbook is able to pull off certain scenes a lot better than in writing fictional novels. The fact of the matter is, they're both so entirely different, it's difficult to compare their qualities. There are scenes within flims and comicbooks that can be REALLY hard to articulate into the descriptive paragraphs of a novel. Eevn the greatest of novelists, struggle to write certain scenes they're envisioning. Both medium's skills vary dramatically, and as a result they both tend to pull off certain scenes better than each other. Conversational scenes especially seem to be portrayed vastly different, with each character's different poise and presence and their general swagger being expressed. Alternatively, there are conversational pieces within novels that can be really exciting and effective, but simply cannot be worked into film or comicbook writing. Like the way different behaviours are explained. Each medium has it's fair share of literary constraints. Ad it is these constraints that create such a varying degree of differentials. Not so much about what each medium is able to achieve, but the confinments that effect what is achievable.

The second statement really is pretty insulting to comic writers, though. To say that they "don't even consider" literary skills is just plain wrong.

I'm sorry, but it isn't. It is indeed true that there are many literary techniques that are considered in writing novels, which simply aren't considered, at all, in comicbook writing. I've tried to explain this in previous posts. All I ask, is that you keep your "feelings" out of debates like these. Because whether you like it or not, both mediums present their scenes very, very differently to each other. This is why I'd rather read novels from novelists. I've tried to make this clear, and looking back at the very posts you just quoted, I can see that I had said that already. Quite clearly. I never said one was better than the other, except for when I posted about how a comicbook can be able to depict character expressions better than in novels. That was in my first post, in fact. So I clearly wasn't explaining how comics were "worse", or anything of the sort.

But it is true that I think writing a novel is a greater challenge. It is a greater challenge. The planning needed is through the roof!! It can take years and years just to plan. It's a headache. It really is a monumntous achievement to be able to write a good novel. More so than planning lay outs for panels. But I never stated anything about novels being better.

Just like Dune might not work as a comic, Watchmen wouldn't have the same impact as a prose novel. But being different doesn't mean they aren't using literary techniques. Watchmen is technically brilliant in both writing and art.

I agree that if you try changing one story from one medium into another, it rarely makes a good transition. I think comicbooks share more in common with film scripts than novel literature. Writing novels is just very, very different indeed.

Now, maybe this isn't what you're trying to say at all. If that's the case, you might just need to rethink your wording. However, based on what you're saying, I don't know how anyone could come to a different conclusion.

I believe you may have gone into this discussion with some preconceived notions on how I may see general literature. I remember us both having a discusion about literary standards before. When I was discussing general MU and DCU comics, I feel you may have thought I was being rather brash and big-headed. I don't want assumptions like that distorting you're feelings of my comments. If you're not quite sure about something, ask a question. That's what I always do. :)

[Robbie_Jee]

Rise of the Governer was O.K. but it is kind of clear that Kirkman does comics better then novels but then again I still enjoyed it. I haven't read Road to Woodbury yet so I don't know if I can recommend it or not. At the bottom of the Amazon page there are some customer reviews that might be helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Walking-De...owViewpoints=0

Thanks for the link. I don't think I'll read the novels though. I didn't like the sound of those reviews. TBH, I actually find most novels to be pretty boring and un-eventful, but there are still quite a lot I've read that I'll always remember and cherish. There's some stupidly clever fuckers out there writing books. Frank Herbert seriously makes me feel like a complete dumbass.