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  1. #31
    Rargh! Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xero Kaiser View Post
    People always say that, but that explanation never made sense to me. I've played a lot of games in my time and I can't say that I've ever spent the entirety of any game with my face pressed up against the screen so I can stare at my character's ass.
    World of warcraft is played with a behind the character view.
    I always played an orc because they had the biggest shoulder gear.

  2. #32
    Rargh! Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kamikaze10 View Post
    I think he's just saying that anything that goes away from the testosterone-jacked army dude that has been around since Doom would be nice.

    And having more female protagonists would force a change from that typical archetype, specifically in FPS'.
    Perfect Dark Zero sucked.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Perfect Dark Zero sucked.
    Perfect Dark (the original on the N64) was awesome.

    And what's your point anyway? Perfect Dark Zero may have sucked, but what about Far Cry 2? Medal of Honor? Modern Warfare 2? Duke Nukem Forever?
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  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_Dark View Post
    Perfect Dark (the original on the N64) was awesome.

    And what's your point anyway? Perfect Dark Zero may have sucked, but what about Far Cry 2? Medal of Honor? Modern Warfare 2? Duke Nukem Forever?
    I think Alex’s point was that having a female lead doesn’t automatically make what would otherwise be a mediocre game, good. Which is to say, the games you listed wouldn't be better games if they had a female protagonist.
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  5. #35
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
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    Breasts could make a video game character more interesting. Most video game characters are only interesting on a surface level. If looks don't matter, I'm sure you wouldn't mind if there were a really fun game starring a guy who shoots enemies with a penis sticking out of his forehead.
    Last edited by jesse_custer; 11-07-2012 at 02:38 PM.

  6. #36
    Poison Zachy →♯➊➇ ☯ Ivy's Avatar
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    That's rather silly, you should have the right to choose whoever you want to play as in a video game. Video games are for fun & to escape from reality for a short while. Does it really matter what the gender is of the character you're playing as? I don't think so, & I find it odd your family makes a fuss over it. They're just video games o; Gender does not determine how interesting a character is. It's their character, their personality. That's how characters gain fans I believe.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_Dark View Post
    Penis should automatically make it the normal or default choice?
    No. A dull character is a dull character either way. It's funny you bring up Samus because for most of her existence she had zero personality. Just a blank slate no better than the likes of Doomguy. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Neither of those two are interesting characters. Just being female, in and of itself, doesn't magically make her fascinating.

    In Call of Duty, the only thing separating Sgt. Jackson and Sgt. Sanderson is the color of their skin. Neither character has a personality to speak of (or even talks IIRC). That doesn't mean that one of these guys is automatically interesting just because most video game protagonists aren't black.

    It's a reason to say why the hell *aren't* you making female characters and instead defaulting to male characters?
    Well, in my case it's because I'm going to make a character that at least somewhat resembles me if I have a choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    Breasts could make a video game character more interesting. Most video game characters are only interesting on a surface level. If looks don't matter, I'm sure you wouldn't mind if there were a really fun game starring a guy who shoots enemies with a penis sticking out of his forehead.
    Shitty character design is another matter entirely.
    Last edited by Xero Kaiser; 11-07-2012 at 03:18 PM.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xero Kaiser View Post
    No. A dull character is a dull character either way. It's funny you bring up Samus because for most of her existence she had zero personality. Just a blank slate no better than the likes of Doomguy. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Neither of those two are interesting characters. Just being female, in and of itself, doesn't magically make her fascinating.
    I'd argue the exact opposite. The great thing about characters like Samus and Gordon Freeman is that the players are free to use their own imagination to fill in the gaps for the character, and often what we come up with ourselves is far better than what often gets passed as story or character development in video games. But even then, these characters aren't quite blank slates. In Super Metroid you get to see Samus saving the life of the baby metroid from Metroid 2 (then hand it straight to the scientists for experimentation) and you can begin to form a personality around that. Then the baby metroid comes back to save your life at the end and you again can form characterisation around Samus and the baby metroid's interaction. In Metroid: Zero Mission you find drawings in the cave of when Samus was a little kid interacting with her adoptive Chozo guardians. In Metroid: Fusion you get the text of Samus and her computer (with the AI personality of her former commander) interacting - again more characterisation. In the Metroid: Prime games you find the log files from the Space Pirates and learn how the pirates are basically scared shitless of her - characterising her as an utter baddass in the eyes of her enemies.

    I know this is a little off the original point of the topic, but the point you trying to make was that only Metroid: Other M tried to give her a personality then I'd counter-argue that Other M fell into the same problems with character development that other games fall into with their 'generic dude in armour' characters. In that their writing is bad. What makes say Marcus Fenix' characterisation from Gears of War better than Samus'? If you were to take Other M in isolation from all the other Metroid games, I'd say very little. They're both pretty bad or generic writing. However what made Other M bad compared to the other Metroid games is that Other M felt like a radical shift in characterisation from people had come to know for Samus. And how could that be possible if Samus was just a blank slate with zero personality? It's because, aside from the very first Metroid I guess, is that she isn't a blank slate.

    To get back to the point of the topic, I'm not advocating for more bland generic characters either male or female. I'm merely saying that IF that's what we have to accept for a particular game, then why in the majority of the cases is the accepted, default choice a male character? Or, more to the point, why does it matter if the character is *not* a male? Why not instead of Marcus Fenix have Marcia Fenix? What difference does it make to the gameplay of Gears of War? The only one I can really come up with is that at least we wouldn't have yet another bulked up *dude* in armour with a big gun.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Deep_Sleeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiles View Post
    Hi, I just love being female characters in video games, but my family doesn't like it. The way they think is that I'm a guy, so I should be a guy in video games. But really what's the harm in a guy being female characters?

    It's getting really annoying having them judge me over this. And it's even more annoying everytime they praise male characters in video games, calling them "cool" and stuff, but why can't a female character be "cool" too? They never give praise to any female characters.
    "It'll make you one of them gays!"

    Seriously...pay them no mind. I can think of why someone would protest to a guy playing girl character. Honestly, if I'm playing a co-op game with my boys, I don't want to be Sheva from "Resident Evil 5". But I'm weird like that. Go for it, dude!
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  10. #40
    Soul Gem Resident adam_warlock_2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse_custer View Post
    Breasts could make a video game character more interesting. Most video game characters are only interesting on a surface level. If looks don't matter, I'm sure you wouldn't mind if there were a really fun game starring a guy who shoots enemies with a penis sticking out of his forehead.
    Yeah I wouldn't play that.
    This guy gets it.

    And I do find breasts very interesting. I like em a lot. So I obviously don't mind seeing them a lot in the various forms of entertainment I entertain myself with.

    And now that I think of it ... how does playing a gal character make your folks think you might have an alternate sexual preference? I don't get. I mean if they are worried you aren't heterosexual then how does being entertained by some gal in a sexualized costume make them think you're not?
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  11. #41
    Senior Member Arvandor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam_warlock_2099 View Post
    And now that I think of it ... how does playing a gal character make your folks think you might have an alternate sexual preference? I don't get. I mean if they are worried you aren't heterosexual then how does being entertained by some gal in a sexualized costume make them think you're not?
    Indeed. Whenever I get such comments, I always turn it around and call THEM gay for NOT wanting to see a hot babe kicking vdeo game ass. Just to annoy them.
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  12. #42
    Rargh! Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Shark View Post
    I think Alex’s point was that having a female lead doesn’t automatically make what would otherwise be a mediocre game, good. Which is to say, the games you listed wouldn't be better games if they had a female protagonist.
    Well, that, and it didn't change anything.

  13. #43
    Rargh! Alex's Avatar
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    Look at the historic most popular games with female leads
    Metroid, where she wore a giant robot suit that didn't even let you know she was a woman, and then a long gap, and Tomb Raider, a game where the advertising did it's best to tell you how big the main characters tits were.
    Neither game was better because the main character was female.
    Debatebly, Final Fantasy 3 was better because it had females in more prominent positions, just for varieties sake. But it's not like they were focused on more or people liked it just because of the characters.

    I think your core issue in this, is that less woman play console and pc games (like...game games, not your sims or angry birds) than men, and it's probably not going to change anytime soon, so it's a chicken and the egg sort of thing. Do woman not play games as much because there aren't many women in them in the lead roles, or are there not many women in lead roles because not many women play.
    Or is it because the adds for games with female leads look like this

  14. #44
    Elder Member jesse_custer's Avatar
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    Neither game was better for having a female lead, but both games were more interesting or, at the very least, generated a different sort of interest than Contra. That's the distinction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xero Kaiser View Post
    Shitty character design is another matter entirely.
    Character design, whether shitty or not, seems to be the whole issue to me.

    Like I said, I don't think most video game characters generate interest beyond the surface. Case in point, why is Luigi interesting? Like Mario, he's Italian and wears overalls and has a mustache. However, unlike Mario, he wears green clothes and is tall. Typically, that's all it takes in video games. Therefore, if breasts on a character does it for someone, it's not like this would break any unspoken rule about appreciation of video game character design.
    Last edited by jesse_custer; 11-08-2012 at 07:01 AM.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_Dark View Post
    I'd argue the exact opposite. The great thing about characters like Samus and Gordon Freeman is that the players are free to use their own imagination to fill in the gaps for the character, and often what we come up with ourselves is far better than what often gets passed as story or character development in video games.
    Maybe in a game like Dragon Age: Origins where I can at least have some input on how my character reacts to what's happening around him that might fly. But when your character is just...there, then no. There's, "leaving something to the imagination" and there's, "perpetually standing there like a log".

    but the point you trying to make was that only Metroid: Other M tried to give her a personality
    Not just Other M. I know they had given us bits and pieces before that, but I think Fusion was the first game that actually had Samus say anything or react to what was happening and that was like 15 years after her creation.

    However what made Other M bad compared to the other Metroid games is that Other M felt like a radical shift in characterisation from people had come to know for Samus. And how could that be possible if Samus was just a blank slate with zero personality?
    The main thing I always hear people complaining about (aside from her following the retarded restrictions she was given) is her freaking out when she fought Ridley, someone she's kicked the shit out of numerous times before. And by this point we've played Fusion and Zero Mission so we had some idea how Samus acts (or should be acting) by this point.
    Last edited by Xero Kaiser; 11-08-2012 at 05:02 PM.

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