WALKING DEAD vs. AVENGERS and the Comics Sales Carryover

**passer-by** · 11-04-2012, 02:52 PM

Apologies if there's already a thread or if I posted it in the wrong forum, but I wanted to share a Newsarama article I just came across about the way films and TV shows based on comics influence the comic books sales.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/reta...ers-sales.html

Pretty interesting comments by retailers. Probably nothing new to some of us, but the reasons why the Walking Dead trades sell like crazy among the non-comic fans and the mainstream superhero books do not are well summed up here.

Two excerpts I particularly like:

"Walking Dead and Watchmen and Sin City and 300 are stories," DiBernardo said. "A story will sell its source material. Avengers, X-Men, Green Lantern and Ghost Rider are character-driven properties. A character driven property will not sell the same."

The superheroes have become the generic fast food of the comic industry while titles like Persepolis, Love & Rockets, and Criminal bring the literary gourmets into our shops.

**Alex** · 11-04-2012, 03:05 PM

...
Is love and rockets really a big deal, in 2012?

**Libaax** · 11-04-2012, 03:06 PM

Its true with those qoutes even i think i should read Criminal,Blacksad type stories in trade form to read quality comics.

Its normal, superhero comics are mass produced quantity over quality just like summer blockbusters are in films and Dan Brown type are in books.

Buts lets not generalize too much, quality superhero ongoings like Daredevil,Animal Man are as good as the best other stories. Already reading a stand alone world stories like Walking Dead,Sin City is easier than getting into the complex, old inbred world of Big two superhero comics....

I like superhero comics and have been reading them for 7 years and still i dont follow Big two Universes, too much history to know and care.

**passer-by** · 11-04-2012, 03:09 PM

It's not about a comparison in quality among the comic book fans though. It's about which comic series sell well among the people who only watched the films and/or TV shows. ;)

In other words, the hopes of Marvel/DC execs that the films would attract lots of new readers who would commit to regular buying of mainstream superhero ongoing series seem to be more like wishful thinking.
On the other hand I don't think they care that much, as long as the films bring Disney and Warner heaps of money.

**Libaax** · 11-04-2012, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by passer-by

It's not about a comparison in quality among the comic book fans though. It's about which comic series sell well among the people who only watched the films and/or TV shows. ;)

In other words, the hopes of Marvel/DC execs that the films would bring them lots of new readers who would commit to regular buying of mainstream superhero ongoing series seem to be more like wishful thinking. On the other hand I don't think they care that much, as long as the films bring Disney and Warner heaps of money.

I meant when i came to comics as newbie, someone who didnt care about the medium coming from tv/film. 2005? Sin City came out and i had the choice to buy Avengers trade, Batman trade or Sin City, Hellblazer,Hellboy types. Stories sold me to the medium and not characters whose stories will never end because of DC,Marvel feeds on them.

Its the same issue today, the difference is Avengers is the big comics film. I have brothers,friends who dont read comics but who despite they loved Avengers dont want to get into the messy world of Superhero. They can read the other genres, trades and help those comics sell without join the superhero fans world.

Walking Dead sells tons because its story and not character driven property. Superhero to the casual fan and new fan is fast food you dont buy in trades.

Its more than wishful thinking, DC/Marvel are dominated by their history. If i cant get into their superhero worlds after 7 years, new potential fans dont have much of chance unless they are special cases. Otherwise Batman volumes would sell 10 000 copies more than Walking Dead trades.

**DonC** · 11-04-2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by passer-by

Apologies if there's already a thread or if I posted it in the wrong forum, but I wanted to share a Newsarama article I just came across about the way films and TV shows based on comics influence the comic books sales.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/reta...ers-sales.html

Pretty interesting comments by retailers. Probably nothing new to some of us, but the reasons why the Walking Dead trades sell like crazy among the non-comic fans and the mainstream superhero books do not are well summed up here.

Two excerpts I particularly like:

"Walking Dead and Watchmen and Sin City and 300 are stories," DiBernardo said. "A story will sell its source material. Avengers, X-Men, Green Lantern and Ghost Rider are character-driven properties. A character driven property will not sell the same."

The superheroes have become the generic fast food of the comic industry while titles like Persepolis, Love & Rockets, and Criminal bring the literary gourmets into our shops.

What is it you're asking, here? Does the success of a show like The Walking Dead lead to more of an increase in sales over the success of something like The Avengers? Yes. Self-contained books like The Walking Dead sell better with the bookstore crowd.

**passer-by** · 11-04-2012, 03:39 PM

Not asking anything, just liked the good summing up of the differences between Marvel/DC mainstream titles and the others.

By the way, The Walking Dead may be considered something of an exception insofar as they have no planned end in sight, unlike all the other self-contained examples, and still sell like hot cakes.

**the goddamn batman** · 11-04-2012, 03:48 PM

But it has a clear starting point, because it's labeled with a big fucking #1 on it, and each subsequent volume is numbered.
I read comics and I find the collected editions of some Marvel and DC books confusing. Imagine if you didn't read comics at all.

let's see, do I pick up this book labeled #1, or this book that only has a title, among myriad other books with other titles, all under the Avengers/Batman banner?

the fact that this is even an article or conversation that needs to be had is the proof that they're doing it wrong.

**Libaax** · 11-04-2012, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by the goddamn batman

But it has a clear starting point, because it's labeled with a big fucking #1 on it, and each subsequent volume is numbered.
I read comics and I find the collected editions of some Marvel and DC books confusing. Imagine if you didn't read comics at all.

let's see, do I pick up this book labeled #1, or this book that only has a title, among myriad other books with other titles, all under the Avengers/Batman banner?

the fact that this is even an article or conversation that needs to be had is the proof that they're doing it wrong.

Sometimes i miss reading a series that had issue 1 and ending. Recently i have been interested in new coming Hulk comics and frankly its foolishly hard to get trades of the run that was just last year. Local comics shop dont even buy in some superhero trades because he know it wont sell as much Vertigo/Indy/other genres.

Oh how i miss my first year of american comics, there was tons of Vertigo, other trades of series that started and ended fully like they were good novels. Superhero mainstream will never have that quality of actually ending well or badly.

**the goddamn batman** · 11-04-2012, 04:05 PM

Jonathan Hickman has referred to it as a perpetual second act story structure.

**Meehl** · 11-04-2012, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by the goddamn batman

But it has a clear starting point, because it's labeled with a big fucking #1 on it, and each subsequent volume is numbered.
I read comics and I find the collected editions of some Marvel and DC books confusing. Imagine if you didn't read comics at all.

let's see, do I pick up this book labeled #1, or this book that only has a title, among myriad other books with other titles, all under the Avengers/Batman banner?

the fact that this is even an article or conversation that needs to be had is the proof that they're doing it wrong.

Yea, I think you miss the point.

Let me try to summarize:

Walking Dead comics are now selling to "TV Viewer" because there's a clear story of value that's compelling when told in comic book form.
The Avengers comics DO NOT sell to "Movie Viewer" because the Avengers are vacuous fast food and there's nothing of value in the story being told.

It has nothing to do with self-contained stories or confusing ret cons.

**Alex** · 11-04-2012, 05:29 PM

The trades sell well, but aside from Waling dead 100, the floppies sell much less.
Do we even know how well random Avengers trade sells vs random walking dead trade?

**President Kang** · 11-04-2012, 05:43 PM

Walking Dead Vol 1 has been the top trade seller for, like, a year straight. I think it's also easier to get people to buy Walking Dead comics because as much as people say it's different, it is very much an adaptation of specific stories and arcs from the comic. It's like "wanna know what happens next? *cough*kindacloseenough*cough* Then read the comic!" You can't point to very many superhero movies out in 2012 and say it was an adaptation of that. Avengers = Ultimates Vol. 1, kinda. Dark Knight Rises = Dark Knight Returns, kinda less. Amazing Spider-Man = Ultimate Spider-Man Vol. 1, kinda less less.

**the goddamn batman** · 11-04-2012, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Meehl

Yea, I think you miss the point.

Let me try to summarize:

Walking Dead comics are now selling to "TV Viewer" because there's a clear story of value that's compelling when told in comic book form.
The Avengers comics DO NOT sell to "Movie Viewer" because the Avengers are vacuous fast food and there's nothing of value in the story being told.

It has nothing to do with self-contained stories or confusing ret cons.

I didn't miss the point. Avengers isn't "fast food." TWD isn't high art. It is t a gourmet meal, to keep the analogy going. If someone wants to read TWD it's pretty clear where they start. That isn't the case with Avengers, is it?