Why is Jean often considered the Paragon of Virtue in the X-Men unverse?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I went back and re-read the issue where jean caught Scott and Emma together. Remember Scott bascially refused to do anything with Emma physically. When Jean walked in Emma was mentally projecting her self to Scott as Jean, and when Jean confronted her Scott looked lost and confused to what was happening. It was almost as if he was already being manipulated by Emma. I just ermembered that. I always wondered if Scott was manipulated easier because of his time with Apcolypse, and Emma too kadvantage of that.

Not really. It was more of a "Wait, my wife cares? What gives?" moment.[/QUOTE]

[Quinnhop]

Ew. It's like imagining parents having dirty, on the knees, animal sex.

Oh god, cannot unsee.

[twobit]

Think about it, Emma had to pretend to be Jean so Scott could get it up. He wasn't in it for Emma, he needed her to pretend to his wife, who he felt was negelcting him for the school and for Logan, at least to me.

[MartinRedmond]

Ew. It's like imagining parents having dirty, on the knees, animal sex.

That's why they're concealed in the pouches, genius.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Think about it, Emma had to pretend to be Jean so Scott could get it up. He wasn't in it for Emma, he needed her to pretend to his wife, who he felt was negelcting him for the school and for Logan, at least to me.

I'll bite. What does that have to do with your questionable theory of Emma manipulating Scott?

[Menshevik]

Scott betrayed Jean on multiple occasions? When? When exactly did Scott do anything less than everything for Jean -including leaving his wife and two kids!-before Appoc?

When they set up X-Factor, Scott betrayed Jean's friendship and trust by keepint the fact that he was married with children from her. Made doubly or triply worse by her then rather fragile emotional state and guilt-tripping Bobby, Hank and Warren to become his accomplices in hiding the truth from her.

[ZNOP]

When they set up X-Factor, Scott betrayed Jean's friendship and trust by keepint the fact that he was married with children from her. Made doubly or triply worse by her then rather fragile emotional state and guilt-tripping Bobby, Hank and Warren to become his accomplices in hiding the truth from her.

I'd never defend Scott but... What was he gonna tell her? "You were dead so I married... Well, another you!"

[MarvelMaster616]

I went back and re-read the issue where jean caught Scott and Emma together. Remember Scott bascially refused to do anything with Emma physically. When Jean walked in Emma was mentally projecting her self to Scott as Jean, and when Jean confronted her Scott looked lost and confused to what was happening. It was almost as if he was already being manipulated by Emma. I just ermembered that. I always wondered if Scott was manipulated easier because of his time with Apcolypse, and Emma too kadvantage of that.

That moment you mentioned has been scrutinized more than nearly any other moment in recent years with X-men comics. I try not to over-analyze because I doubt anyone at Marvel puts that much detail into a page. I suspect that if Grant Morrison was given more creative freedom, he would have had Cyclops physically cheat and he would have had Jean do the same. He's gone on record as saying that he despised their relationship. I think the editors made sure he didn't take it too far. But the scene itself is still telling in that Cyclops only came to Emma because of Jean Grey and Emma had to use Jean Grey's imagery to seduce him. She would use that imagery again later on in Astonishing X-men (see Torn). It goes back to the inescapable circumstances that Cyclops and Emma Frost's relationship is entirely based around Jean Grey. They never would have gotten together were it not for her. And not just because of the push at the end of Here Comes Tomorrow. Cyclops never would have opened up to Emma were it not for Jean.

Now I don't believe Emma directly manipulated him as in used her powers to twist his thoughts. But I do think she took advantage of his emotions, as she's very keen on doing with pretty much anybody. However, given Marvel's ridiculous bias towards Cyclops/Emma (Chris Yost being the lone exception), I think Marvel is going to find some horribly contrived way to keep them together. One other poster suggested that the writers essentially live through Cyclops and that's why they keep him with Emma, so they have an excuse to show her in sexual situations. And that's a horrible reason for a relationship. That's essentially the plot to a porno. Jean Grey may have had her flaws, but at least she conveyed honest emotion in her love for Cyclops and it didn't need to be sexualized.

[Seresecros]

because she's dead

[celestialbodies]

because she's dead

This and because she gives awesome pep talks from the afterlife.

[Menshevik]

I'd never defend Scott but... What was he gonna tell her? "You were dead so I married... Well, another you!"

"You were dead, so I got married and just became a father." Simple as that. I mean, honestly, the whole setup sucked. Scott and the others would not have been able to hide anything from Jean if she hadn't oh so conveniently lost her telepathy, even with the policy of not letting Jean get into contact with anyone present at the wedding or aware of the marriage.

[Menshevik]

That moment you mentioned has been scrutinized more than nearly any other moment in recent years with X-men comics. I try not to over-analyze because I doubt anyone at Marvel puts that much detail into a page. I suspect that if Grant Morrison was given more creative freedom, he would have had Cyclops physically cheat and he would have had Jean do the same. He's gone on record as saying that he despised their relationship. I think the editors made sure he didn't take it too far. But the scene itself is still telling in that Cyclops only came to Emma because of Jean Grey and Emma had to use Jean Grey's imagery to seduce him. She would use that imagery again later on in Astonishing X-men (see Torn). It goes back to the inescapable circumstances that Cyclops and Emma Frost's relationship is entirely based around Jean Grey. They never would have gotten together were it not for her. And not just because of the push at the end of Here Comes Tomorrow. Cyclops never would have opened up to Emma were it not for Jean.

Now I don't believe Emma directly manipulated him as in used her powers to twist his thoughts. But I do think she took advantage of his emotions, as she's very keen on doing with pretty much anybody. However, given Marvel's ridiculous bias towards Cyclops/Emma (Chris Yost being the lone exception), I think Marvel is going to find some horribly contrived way to keep them together. One other poster suggested that the writers essentially live through Cyclops and that's why they keep him with Emma, so they have an excuse to show her in sexual situations. And that's a horrible reason for a relationship. That's essentially the plot to a porno. Jean Grey may have had her flaws, but at least she conveyed honest emotion in her love for Cyclops and it didn't need to be sexualized.

Elsewhere on the Internet saw something where an obvious fan of Cyclops complained that it was so unfair that people are angry at Scott for cheating on Jean when Jean (Phoenix) did the same thing during the Dark Phoenix Saga, but then everybody accepted that she was Mastermind's innocent victim. I thought: "Well, my friend, the difference is that when she snapped out of it Phoenix turned on Mastermind and exacted her revenge instead of deciding that her relationship with Scott was too "adolescent" and becoming Jason Wyngarde's common-law wife. And then it hit me - Morrison's story of teh Awsome Lurve of Scott and Emma actually follows the same basic plot as a certain other story, to wit the saga of Carol Danvers and Marcus, son of Immortus, that culminated in Avengers #200. Both with Scemma (Scomma?) and with Carcus there is a story in which a person is manipulated into falling in love with their manipulator. In Carol's case it was a less subtle method involving abductions, impregnation and selectively induced amnesia, in Scott's it was the ethically unacceptable seduction of a patient by his supposed therapist and, apparently, another bit of psychic "nudging" from Jean herself. Both stories portrayed the resultant union as the desirable outcome and involved time-travel, the first because Marcus was the son of Immortus, the second because of Morrison's ham-fisted attempt to make Scemma a union ordained by fate in "Here Comes Tomorrow". Karl Marx famously commented that in history everything happens twice, first as a tragedy, then as a farce, and one could say that is true here, because Avengers was revealed as a tragedy when Avengers Annual #10 came out, while the second storyline not only had aspects of a bedroom farce, especially in the scene where Jean found out, but because it is still left with its "happy end".

[ZNOP]

Elsewhere on the Internet saw something where an obvious fan of Cyclops complained that it was so unfair that people are angry at Scott for cheating on Jean when Jean (Phoenix) did the same thing during the Dark Phoenix Saga, but then everybody accepted that she was Mastermind's innocent victim. I thought: "Well, my friend, the difference is that when she snapped out of it Phoenix turned on Mastermind and exacted her revenge instead of deciding that her relationship with Scott was too "adolescent" and becoming Jason Wyngarde's common-law wife.

That's all good and all but there's one problem with that line of reasoning... Emma Frost and Jason Wyngarde were responsible for Jean's psychosis which in turned her to the dark side. What was the P(honey)5's excuse for all of the destruction and loss of life they collectively/individually caused? Oh, yeah... That's right! "The Phoenix Force made us do it!" That should be their opening line of defense.

[Menshevik]

That's all good and all but there's one problem with that line of reasoning... Emma Frost and Jason Wyngarde were responsible for Jean's psychosis which in turned her to the dark side. What was the P(honey)5's excuse for all of the destruction and loss of life they collectively/individually caused? Oh, yeah... That's right! "The Phoenix Force made us do it!" That should be their opening line of defense.

The post I summarized was written before AvX, IIRC, so the problem you see only arose afterwards.

[MartinRedmond]

That's all good and all but there's one problem with that line of reasoning... Emma Frost and Jason Wyngarde were responsible for Jean's psychosis which in turned her to the dark side. What was the P(honey)5's excuse for all of the destruction and loss of life they collectively/individually caused? Oh, yeah... That's right! "The Phoenix Force made us do it!" That should be their opening line of defense.

She was fresh off being passed around the inner circle. I'm sure had she be given the opportunity to get a few weeks rest & relaxation by the Shiar, she'd have gotten it back together.