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  1. #151
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monty_Cristo View Post
    i don't think that's true. she has the same problem as any other size-changing character. every hurdle that applies to Hank applies to her, as well. Janet can't really survive outside of a team environment. that makes her a significantly weaker property than Hank; who, at least, has the lonerish mad scientist angle to work with. just imagining pitching this to someone who doesn't read comics. Jan is a wealthy woman who can shrink because her boyfriend experimented on her. what's the hook? it'd be one thing if Jan had a history of being some kind of adventurer before meeting Hank and getting powers. instead, we only know about her because of the powers. that's not a great position. Scott, before being Ant-man, was a cat-burglar. Eric O'Grady was a SHIELD agent. Hank was the black sheep of the science community. they are just easier to pitch as solo projects (and they still have a uphill battle).

    but, yeah, Jan's easy to use as the bubbly token female of any large group. but she, like Foggy Nelson, is a "plus-one."
    For the millionth time, she DOES NOT HAVE to be Pym's girlfriend. Nobody cares for that aspect other than mega comic geeks. Just like O'Grady and Lang happened to gain superpowers from the Pym particles, Jan could just gain her powers from exposure to the particles (if the IM3 casting rumors are true, seems like Marvel Studios may be heading that way anyway). Also, an attractive, fashionable wealthy young socialite in Tinkerbell costume is WAY more sellable to the masses and family audiences than all of those weirdo scientist types.
    Last edited by Confuzzled Mutie; 11-19-2012 at 10:01 PM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    Again being spunky and have a zest for life doesn't necesseraly result in commerciality. Those are traits of supporting characters.
    Tell that to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, created by the same dude who also directed a little Marvel Studios related movie named "The Avengers".



    Pym is a great character(as well as Jan), don't mix up your bias and what Wright has in mind, mmok?
    I think it is rather telling that Wright ditched Pym for Scott. Obviously, loner mad scientist has already been covered in the Marvel movie universe by "The Incredible Hulk". As I said before, Pym is just an inferior imitation of Bruce Banner personality wise. Jan has the fresh and unique "Sassy Superpowered America's Sweetheart" thing going for her, which if done right in this Twilight/Hunger Games manic era of female demographic targeted blockbusters, could rake in some HUGE bucks.
    Last edited by Confuzzled Mutie; 11-19-2012 at 10:02 PM.

  3. #153
    FRENCH Frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled Mutie View Post
    Tell that to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, created by the same dude who also directed a little Marvel Studios related movie named "The Avengers".
    Completly different character. Buffy never really that an obvious personality to begin with, her supporting cast had more of that Wasp-like attitude.



    I think it is rather telling that Wright ditched Pym for Scott. Obviously, loner mad scientist has already been covered in the Marvel movie universe by "The Incredible Hulk". As I said before, Pym is just an inferior imitation of Bruce Banner personality wise. Jan has the fresh and unique "Sassy Superpowered America's Sweetheart" thing going for her, which if done right in this Twilight/Hunger Games manic era of female demographic targeted blockbusters, could rake in some HUGE bucks.
    Hunger Games? More like Tinker Bell.
    Legato - Frank, Calm Down Your Nerd Rage!

  4. #154
    Senior Member Castel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled Mutie View Post
    For the millionth time, she DOES NOT HAVE to be Pym's girlfriend.
    If it wasn't for Hank she even wouldn't be a super hero in the first place so, yes, she completely does.

    And exposure to the particles ? Are we back to the 60's ?

  5. #155
    Member theflyingfrogunderdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled Mutie View Post
    Is the Wasp more commercially appealing and marketable than Ant-Man?
    I think a better question is...why hasn't Marvel created a super-villain called Anteater yet?

  6. #156
    Senior Member Zagreus's Avatar
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    I think Wasp has the most annoying personality of any superheroine. That said, at least its a distinct voice, so I know its her when she speaks, as opposed to other characters who are indistinguishiable from each other.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    Completly different character. Buffy never really that an obvious personality to begin with, her supporting cast had more of that Wasp-like attitude.
    Did you happen to watch the same show? Sarah Michelle Gellar played Buffy as Sass Personified. In fact, at a slightly younger age, she would have made the perfect Wasp herself.


    Hunger Games? More like Tinker Bell.
    You do know that part of the reason why the books are such a hit is because they combine glam with grit? Katniss and friends are all dolled up by fashion designers and make-up artists for interviews and appearances before the start of the actual games. She was known as "The Girl On Fire" for a costume, after all! And the actual games do involve a lot of "playing up to the cameras" as well, not just murdering opponents left, right and center. It is the concept of something deep and more serious being wrapped up in a covering of something lighter and more frivolous which works perfectly with audiences every time, if done well.
    Last edited by Confuzzled Mutie; 11-20-2012 at 10:51 AM.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castel View Post
    If it wasn't for Hank she even wouldn't be a super hero in the first place so, yes, she completely does.

    And exposure to the particles ? Are we back to the 60's ?
    Did you even read my post beyond that one line? Nobody beyond some fanatic geeks care about Hank's role in Jan's life. If you remove him from the equation and give her another origin, it would not matter one bit to the general movie going audience. Also, exposure to particles is just an off-hand suggestion I gave. I would bet some creative Hollywood scriptwriters would think of a superior way to give Jan her superpowers, minus Hank.

  9. #159
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled Mutie View Post
    For the millionth time, she DOES NOT HAVE to be Pym's girlfriend. Nobody cares for that aspect other than mega comic geeks. Just like O'Grady and Lang happened to gain superpowers from the Pym particles, Jan could just gain her powers from exposure to the particles (if the IM3 casting rumors are true, seems like Marvel Studios may be heading that way anyway). Also, an attractive, fashionable wealthy young socialite in Tinkerbell costume is WAY more sellable to the masses and family audiences than all of those weirdo scientist types.
    that's not what the Avengers universe is about. Jan, in her "tinkerbell outfit" would come across as sexist or undeserving of a spot on the team. if she shows up as a superficial wealthy girly girl, i promise you that she will be hated. i guess the upside would be her distracting from Black Widow's comparative ineffectiveness.
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  10. #160
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castel View Post
    If it wasn't for Hank she even wouldn't be a super hero in the first place so, yes, she completely does.

    And exposure to the particles ? Are we back to the 60's ?
    just for the sake of argument, do we really know what would have become of Jan if Hank hadn't gotten involved? judging by her reaction to his offer, she was more than ready to avenge her father. she was incredibly wealthy, adventurous, and unattached. and she had plenty of time to develop some vigilante skill (look at Kate Bishop). i'd say that chances are good that she was already leaning towards the costumed hero life; superheroes were a new and growing fad, at the time. she might have done better without Hank.
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  11. #161
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled Mutie View Post
    You do know that part of the reason why the books are such a hit is because they combine glam with grit? Katniss and friends are all dolled up by fashion designers and make-up artists for interviews and appearances before the start of the actual games. She was known as "The Girl On Fire" for a costume, after all! And the actual games do involve a lot of "playing up to the cameras" as well, not just murdering opponents left, right and center. It is the concept of something deep and more serious being wrapped up in a covering of something lighter and more frivolous which works perfectly with audiences every time, if done well.
    i get all of that. but when you exclude Hank, you kind of miss the hook of Hunger Games. it's not just about an empowered young woman. it's about love. no one has posted the actual story behind Jan becoming the Wasp. are we leaving the love interest out of the movie? is it a straight-up revenge flick? why insects? i don't have a limited imagination. yet i can't see anyone spending 10 + bucks in this economy to watch a movie about a girl who gets turned into an insect hybrid to avenge her dead father (there goes Jan's happy go lucky personality). the audience is too small.
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  12. #162
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    Wasp does have:
    -A spunky fun loving personality
    -A long history with the Avengers

    Wasp doesn't have:
    -Her own supporting cast
    -Her own stories
    -Ever supported her own ongoing
    -An independant origin story


    On her own Jan is a wealthy perky young woman who undergoes an experimental procedure to gain superpowers to avenge her father. If you try and make her the centrepiece of a production I worry it'll come off as if she didn't earn her powers (from a storytelling perspective) or she'll look shallow. Alternatively they could go too far in the other direction and we'd end up with someone barely recognisable as Wasp a grim dark heroine.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monty_Cristo View Post
    that's not what the Avengers universe is about. Jan, in her "tinkerbell outfit" would come across as sexist or undeserving of a spot on the team. if she shows up as a superficial wealthy girly girl, i promise you that she will be hated. i guess the upside would be her distracting from Black Widow's comparative ineffectiveness.
    What IS the Avengers universe about? You'd think a WWII super soldier, a Norse god, a playboy billionaire with body amour, a mad scientist type loner who unleashes his violent other persona, an outer space refugee team and spy organizations do not exactly fit in a uniform mold when actually listed down like that. I don't see how adding a bubbly super-powered heiress would mess up the equation any. Also, note that Wasp would not be the only woman on the team. By the time Avengers 2 rolls out, we would definitely have Black Widow, Maria Hill and most probably Gamora from GotG. Wasp would actually make for a good foil when placed alongside all of these pained, "no nonsense" women. A welcome change and addition, especially for the "girly-girl" audiences who accompany their boyfriends, geeky parents and siblings to these movies. Though obviously that is NOT the only demographic Wasp would appeal to.

    Also, the "Tinkerbelle-esque" costume would do crazy wonders when it comes to merchandising the Wasp at younger girls and women.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monty_Cristo View Post
    i get all of that. but when you exclude Hank, you kind of miss the hook of Hunger Games. it's not just about an empowered young woman. it's about love. no one has posted the actual story behind Jan becoming the Wasp. are we leaving the love interest out of the movie? is it a straight-up revenge flick? why insects? i don't have a limited imagination. yet i can't see anyone spending 10 + bucks in this economy to watch a movie about a girl who gets turned into an insect hybrid to avenge her dead father (there goes Jan's happy go lucky personality). the audience is too small.
    The thing about Hank is, I read somewhere (though I could very EASILY be misinformed), that Edgar Wright was making Pym a scientist belonging to an era long gone, by the time Scott gains the powers of the Pym particles in his movie. So if that news is right, Hank is ALREADY made inconsequential in the Marvel movie universe, in all sense other than being the discoverer of the Pym particles. So if Jan has to have a solo movie, she CANNOT be Hank's girlfriend now, and that aspect of her origin has to be altered. Also, you may or may not have a limited imagination, but Joss Whedon sure does NOT have limits to his imagination, especially when it comes to developing sassy female superheroes. If he introduces The Wasp in Avengers 2 before the Ant-Man movie and before her own solo movie, and builds up a great character, people would be more than eager to flock to a Wasp solo film releasing later, which if not directed by Whedon himself, would at least be guided by him.

    Also, the economy would probably be much stronger by 2016 (here's looking at you POTUS), which is the earliest a Wasp movie would come by.

  14. #164
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propagandor View Post
    On her own Jan is a wealthy perky young woman who undergoes an experimental procedure to gain superpowers to avenge her father. If you try and make her the centrepiece of a production I worry it'll come off as if she didn't earn her powers (from a storytelling perspective) or she'll look shallow. Alternatively they could go too far in the other direction and we'd end up with someone barely recognisable as Wasp a grim dark heroine.
    See Buffy for the perfect mix of light and dark that a Wasp movie would need. Also, see Buffy to see how audiences would relate to and start caring deeply for a protagonist superhero who was just randomly chosen for her powers, despite not being the most responsible or apparently capable person in the world.

  15. #165
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled Mutie View Post
    See Buffy for the perfect mix of light and dark that a Wasp movie would need. Also, see Buffy to see how audiences would relate to and start caring deeply for a protagonist superhero who was just randomly chosen for her powers, despite not being the most responsible or apparently capable person in the world.
    she wasn't randomly chosen. her slayer skills were innate. she was always physically capable. she needed an older experienced person to make up for the rest of it. Buffy wasn't a solo act. do you get the point, yet?
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

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