Is it still a 'family'?

[adkal]

Over in Inc, Morrison has been bringing the family back together again, but do you consider the Bat-clan in the Nu52 to be akin to a 'family' the way it was pre-52?

I know it can be argued that the compressed timeline still 'allows' for the events and growth the family had pre-52 to still have taken place, but, to me, this 'family' just...doesn't exist.

The relationship between Bruce and Dick is no longer there.

The 'brothers' aspect between Dick and Tim is no longer there.

Alfred's bond with all of them is no longer there.

Do you feel this story would probably have had more impact in the old-verse?

[thwhtGuardian]

From the way they relate to each other in the crossovers I think we're meant to see the family as being as close as they've always been despite not really seeing that bond in the individual titles themselves.

[Red_Kamui]

They say traumatic events like war can bring people together faster than normal. They may have only known each other for around five years, but they are still family.

[Godlike13]

Timeline stuff is just technicality. Their relationships seems to be the same as they were before. At least that how they have been portrayed as such so far, for the most part anyway. Not sure u can just say that the relationship between X and X is no longer there, when it hasn't really been portrayed as the case. And just because X and X hasn't interacted yet, doesn't necessarily mean the relationship isn't there anymore.

[minasithil]

The new time frame is rubbish, however--

The relationship between Bruce and Dick is no longer there.

Their relationship was a good-sized part of the last arc of Batman, however you may think of how it played out. Also, they've been shown working together quite a bit, even in the last issue of Tec, and heck, Dick mentioned Bruce like five times in the last issue of Nightwing.

The 'brothers' aspect between Dick and Tim is no longer there.

They seemed friendly enough in the cameo in Batman and that arc in B&R. They just haven't spent as much time together with Tim off with the Titans. Regardless, I'm sure it will be played with more in time, especially with the upcoming Batman arc, and while their dynamic may not be quite the same with Tim's new origin in play (which I'm admittedly not happy about) I would hardly not classify them as brothers.

Alfred's bond with all of them is no longer there.

He visited Dick at the circus in Nightwing, and Dick was shown talking through things with him in the zero issue. He was also a large part of the first arc of B&R with his relationship with Damian. Jason and Tim were shown talking about him fondly in RHATO. (Even though they were dissing his cooking, which I would argue against but regardless.)

Really, the loose end here is Tim, who has a new origin and is off with the Titans and they don't seem entirely clear about what direction they're going with. And Jason, but that's a whole other can of worms, especially with the recent revelation in Inc.

[Rakiduam]

No, is not longer there, now it's more like a prototype of Batman INC. This people work together for a common goal and that's it. The only bond that I still see is Dick and Damian.

Dick and Bruce don't seem to like each other and they were never related in anyway, Dick is indiferent toward Jason and Tim and they are indiferent toward him, I'm not even sure if Dick and Tim knew each other before posing for the portrait. Jason's issues seem to be intact though, still resents Dick for no apparent reason, but now gets along with Tim and he wanted Bruce to be is father and Bruce tried. Tim, I don't know hat's up with Tim but I don't see a relationship with anyone in the "family" besaid breakfast with Jason. Babs, she is there and Damian has issues with everybody.

And Bruce is all over the place. The loner that recruits a new partner ever other year. I'm bitter for the lose of these relationships, and yeah I think would probably have had more impact in the old-verse, I think it would have been devasting for them if those connection were cut, now you can't miss what you didn't have.

[Godlike13]

Where has it been shown that Dick and Bruce don't like each other now, or that Dick is indifferent toward Jason and Tim and that they are indifferent toward him? Just because they haven't interacted much yet, does not mean they are now indifferent toward each other.

[adkal]

Their relationship was a good-sized part of the last arc of Batman, however you may think of how it played out.

Their relationship, to me, took several steps backwards and then took a detour, when compared to what they had pre-52.

Also, they've been shown working together quite a bit, even in the last issue of Tec, and heck, Dick mentioned Bruce like five times in the last issue of Nightwing.

Working together and doing self-comparison or expressing (forced) concern doesn't really equate to 'their relationship is the same', though. Previously, they had more than 12 years together. Now...well...

They seemed friendly enough in the cameo in Batman

The initial issue of Batman was fine, but that was more of a carry-over from pre-52. As the new timeline continued, though, they're now walking separate paths, in my opinion.

and that arc in B&R.

Tomasi, as others have commented over the past year, carried over what Morrison established (including the old timeline )

They just haven't spent as much time together with Tim off with the Titans. Regardless, I'm sure it will be played with more in time, especially with the upcoming Batman arc, and while their dynamic may not be quite the same with Tim's new origin in play (which I'm admittedly not happy about) I would hardly not classify them as brothers.

The way things have been established, though, they have barely spent any time together at all over the past two and a bit years since Tim was taken in. Gone are the pizza-session stake-outs, the blindfold training on a train and, so far, the banter.

He visited Dick at the circus in Nightwing, and Dick was shown talking through things with him in the zero issue. He was also a large part of the first arc of B&R with his relationship with Damian.

Higgins, like Tomasi, has carried over a lot of what was previously established.

Jason and Tim were shown talking about him fondly in RHATO. (Even though they were dissing his cooking, which I would argue against but regardless.)

Personally, that scene just felt very forced overall, especially Lobdell's attempt at bringing down Alfred's culinary skills (the guy would know if his pancakes were no good, in my opinion )

Really, the loose end here is Tim, who has a new origin and is off with the Titans and they don't seem entirely clear about what direction they're going with. And Jason, but that's a whole other can of worms, especially with the recent revelation in Inc.

Like I said in my initial post, Morrison is the one doing the family building, and he has been from day one.

[adkal]

They say traumatic events like war can bring people together faster than normal. They may have only known each other for around five years, but they are still family.

You do realise, though, that they haven't actually known each other for five years (of course you do, you outlined in a few months ago in your own timeline(s)).

[Rakiduam]

Where has it been shown that Dick and Bruce don't like each other now, or that Dick is indifferent toward Jason and Tim and that they are indifferent toward him? Just because they haven't interacted much yet, does not mean they are now indifferent toward each other.

Nightwing 0 left me with that impression, and they are dismissive of each other, like when Bruce hit Dick and Dick didn't even blink, pre new 52 he would have reacted some way, now is like why bother. About Tim they don't talk, even being in the same place, they make comments but they don't talk and Jason is going around in Dick's old uniform and Dick hasn't even noticed it.

[Don Yoyo]

He visited Dick at the circus in Nightwing, and Dick was shown talking through things with him in the zero issue. He was also a large part of the first arc of B&R with his relationship with Damian. Jason and Tim were shown talking about him fondly in RHATO. (Even though they were dissing his cooking, which I would argue against but regardless.)

They didn't diss his cooking, they dissed his waffles.

[DebkoX]

Yes they are a family. It's like how batwing operates in Africa, they are all a family but they have their own missions.

[vampiric_cannibal]

From the way they relate to each other in the crossovers I think we're meant to see the family as being as close as they've always been despite not really seeing that bond in the individual titles themselves.

This. I feel there isn't any chemistry, vibe or even much of a shared universe, let alone city now. Which is weird because half the books have the exact same tone. You can't force things like this overnight. The old Batman family really only existed intermittently. Between War Games and Batman Reborn, it crumbled and slowly rebuilt itself, but the old DCU family I miss existed for 2 years, max.

What little family there is seems to be centred around Jason, and that's because Lobdell seems to be the only one with interest and experience in character/universe/relationship building advice and aligning it with editorial mandates. He picked up some skills in the X-office.

[sunofdarkchild]

Even before the reboot I thought they only really jelled into a family about the time of Bruce's return. They were pretty close to it before, but still too antagonstic towards each other.

[RichSummers]

I totally understand the surprise many people had in that issue of Batman/Nightwing when Bruce just smacked the hell out of Dick and Dick let it go. It def was more of a "you know what, screw you right now Bruce" than anything else but I thought that Snyder seemed to understand the Dick/Bruce dynamic pre-NU52 because of how he ended the night of owls