Hercules (marvel) vs. Thor (marvel) with a twist

[Malevolent1]

no hammer or mace,both are bloodlusted. H2H only,Thor is in warrior madness mode.

My understanding is Herc was always a better H2H combatant. My money is on Herc.

Edit: I am also not aware of any combat reaction feats that put Herc on par with Thor; Thor does have superhuman speed (just far from the likes of Superman, who is near light speed). I suppose if Thor is able to utilize his speed by striking, he can compensate for Herc's slightly better H2H skills.

[Guy Smiley]

ok but here is where I am a bit ignorant on the subject. Hasn't Hercules displayed Strength greater than Thor at times? That is why I put the Warrior Madness mode to see if it would be more equalized or has Herc never displayed stronger feats than Thor?

IIRC, Herc upgraded to Skyfather level a while back, though I unfortunately missed that and don't know what that brought him, strengthwise. However, I'm pretty sure he later lost that upgrade.

[K Von Doom]

Warrior Madness gives Thor 10x the strength of Hercules. This is a pretty massive stomp. Might as well put Hercules against an angry Hulk.

[Malevolent1]

Warrior Madness gives Thor 10x the strength of Hercules. This is a pretty massive stomp. Might as well put Hercules against an angry Hulk.

Curious: do you have any scan/feats indicating Thor's strength actually increases 10 fold? I've always heard that; Thor has even mentioned this ability himself. I've just never seen any feats indicating his strength increases that much.

[AJ Valliant]

Does Herc even have powers at this point? I know he was mortal again in his most recent series.

[big_adventure]

Herc and Thor have tied in arm wrestling. I think that overrides the feats deficit, even by board standards.

Eh, I dunno - this would seem to get into that "Deathstroke is FTL" thing since he's OBVIOUSLY fast enough to hit Flash based on their head-to-head matchup. It also means that Black Panther is strong enough to armbar class 100's who enjoy tanning inside of black holes.

Also, Herc has whooped Thor hand to hand by virtue of superior skill. Obviously this overlooked Thor's speed, but so do most writers, so meh.

IIRC, Thor himself has said that Herc is better in pure HtH, but we go by feats, and thus, that's a bunch of BS. Thor has beaten Herc as well, having done so most recently when Herc was fighting back more than Thor expected during their recent-ish cosplay in Herc's "old" book. Granted, Thor was SUPPOSED to win - the fight was a setup - but Herc decided to make the combat more real.

[big_adventure]

IIRC, Herc upgraded to Skyfather level a while back, though I unfortunately missed that and don't know what that brought him, strengthwise. However, I'm pretty sure he later lost that upgrade.

Herc was Herc, died, was brought back, upgraded to Skyfather+ level, but lost all of that power after fixing the aftermath of the Chaos War. He then got busted back to full-on mortal, making him MAYBE a CBPHer carrying around some seriously impressive weapons - a sword that cuts anything at all, a shield that turns people to stone, and a helmet that confers invisibility. Oh, and he brielfy got Spider Powers during Spider Island, though he lost those after like everyone else. I THINK that's still his active state.

[Captain Morgan]

Eh, I dunno - this would seem to get into that "Deathstroke is FTL" thing since he's OBVIOUSLY fast enough to hit Flash based on their head-to-head matchup. It also means that Black Panther is strong enough to armbar class 100's who enjoy tanning inside of black holes.

.

That isn't remotely the same. Herc is a well established class 100. He has the feats to back this up. That he doesn't have the same feats for bench pressing things is irrelevant because he doesn't have feats that put his maximum consistently lower. He also has feats for casually toying with Thing, wrecking the crap out of Iron Man and fighting just about every version of Hulk with various levels of success.

This is like arguing that Black Adam isn't as strong as Captain Marvel because Adam never knocked out Superman.

IIRC, Thor himself has said that Herc is better in pure HtH, but we go by feats, and thus, that's a bunch of BS. Thor has beaten Herc as well, having done so most recently when Herc was fighting back more than Thor expected during their recent-ish cosplay in Herc's "old" book. Granted, Thor was SUPPOSED to win - the fight was a setup - but Herc decided to make the combat more real

So Thor won a fight that Herc was already planning to take a dive in, and this is an example of superior skill, how?

Going by feats, Herc is consistently touted for his grappling skills. It is how he manages to hang with Hulk better than Thor usually when Thor tries to slug it out.

This is without getting into actual PIS for Herc, like chucking Sentry around or overpowering things underwater Namor couldn't.

[Surtur]

So are we saying Herc and Thor are 100% physically equal here or what is the difference between them? If they were given unlimited time to arm wrestle each other would they just be there for all time? Would one eventually overpower the other?

Then I also wonder..doesn't Thor always have on a belt that enhances his strength or something? So does this mean that both stripped down to nothing but sweatpants and a t-shirt Thor is a bit weaker physically then Herc? Or is the strength enhancing belt an item Thor rarely uses? If it is standard I'm not saying Thor wouldn't have it here, just wondering if going on his own pure power with no outside enchantments how strong he'd be. Would he maybe dip down to WW strength levels?

[AJ Valliant]

So are we saying Herc and Thor are 100% physically equal here or what is the difference between them? If they were given unlimited time to arm wrestle each other would they just be there for all time? Would one eventually overpower the other?

Then I also wonder..doesn't Thor always have on a belt that enhances his strength or something? So does this mean that both stripped down to nothing but sweatpants and a t-shirt Thor is a bit weaker physically then Herc? Or is the strength enhancing belt an item Thor rarely uses? If it is standard I'm not saying Thor wouldn't have it here, just wondering if going on his own pure power with no outside enchantments how strong he'd be. Would he maybe dip down to WW strength levels?

He did have belt of strength and gloves that allowed him to use Mjilnor when it was hot. Both were quietly written out and haven't been mentioned in quite some time. Certainly not since he ended the cycle of Ragnarock.

[kane]

The belt of strength was only used in special circumstances like in the fight against Kurse. Thor usually does not wear the belt and the gloves.

[KavalSorcery]

I did not realize that Thor had any speed of consequence. Ok,let me see if I can even this up. Remove speed and Warrior's madness. Pure physicality. As for those who didn't read what i wrote in the begining. This is Hercules before he lost his powers but not at chaos war level's. Just Hercules as he usually was.

[PatchMadripoor]

ok but here is where I am a bit ignorant on the subject. Hasn't Hercules displayed Strength greater than Thor at times?

And superior grappling techniques. Thor has had to call in the thunder and lightning to help him, as even he acknowledged Hercules' superior skill.
And Herc is known to fight dirty. Real dirty.
See the legendary Hercules #136.

[kane]

I did not realize that Thor had any speed of consequence. Ok,let me see if I can even this up. Remove speed and Warrior's madness. Pure physicality. As for those who didn't read what i wrote in the begining. This is Hercules before he lost his powers but not at chaos war level's. Just Hercules as he usually was.

Speed is also a part of physicality. A good fighter has skill, strength and speed, so removing one of them quite unfair.

[kane]

double post