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  1. #1

    Default Locating characters in the good - evil, lawful - anarchic matrix

    So here's how it works:
    Good: Works for the well being of everybody.
    Neutral: Works only for his survival.
    Evil: Works against the well being of everybody.

    Lawful: Respects and fights for laws and order.
    Neutral: Doesn't mind breaking the law but is not trying to destroy the system, only adapts to the situation.
    Anarchic: Wants to break the system.

    So, here are some clear examples:

    Anarchic evil: Joker, Mxyzptlk - They don't care about the well being of anybody and love to break the system on purpose just to show that order doesn't work.
    Neutral evil: Penguin, Clayface III - They cause a lot of mysery to other people to achieve their own well being, they don't have anything for or against the system, they just adapt to survive. Some are aware of the suffering they cause (Tobias Whale), some aren't Amygdala.
    Lawful evil: Darkseid, Sinestro - They love to impose their own branch of order, which causes a lot of suffering to people. Some work within the system already, some are trying to take down the system to impose their own (terrorists or conquerors like Ra's or Starro).

    Anarchic neutral: Destruction, Chemo, Titano - They use anarhy to survive, but they don't really mean to harm people.
    True Neutral: Metron, Catwoman - They are strictly about their wn survival, they don't care about order or ethis either way.
    Lawful neutral: Sam Lane, Morpheus - They care about order, but they don't care about the well being of other people either way. Normally soldairs fit this profile.

    Lawful Good: Superman, Aquaman - They value both goodness and the established order. Sometimes they observe the order of other people (Flash), sometimes they might want to ipose their own (aquaman).
    Neutral Good: Batman, Swamp Thing - They do good going with the best resource they have. They might break the law for practical purposes, but they don't hate the law.
    Anarchic Good: Hitman, Guy Gardner - They work to save the day, but they don't really care about the system. Sometime they work against it because they hate it (Anarchy, V) sometimes they just find it the best method to save the day (Guy, Red Hood).
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  2. #2

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    Anarchic evil
    Joker, Mxyzptlk, Mr. Zsasz, the Scarecrow, Reverse flash

    Neutral evil
    Aware: Lex Luthor, Penguin, Tobias Whale, Black Mask, Rupert Thorne, Carmine Falcone, Mongul, all the Rogues Gallery, Killer Croc, PArasite, Metallo
    Completely unaware: Clayface III, Amygdala, Cornelius Stirk, Humpty Dumpty.

    Lawful evil
    Within a power structure: Darkseid, Sinestro, Ra's, Starro, Atrocitus, Brainiac, Zod, Black Adam
    Personal branch of order (often sociopaths): Posoin Ivy, Killer Moth, Ratcatcher

    Anarchic neutral
    Aware: Destruction, Hitman, Lobo, Riddler (leans to evil), Trickster (leans to evil),
    Unaware: Chemo (leans to evil), Titano, Delirium, Bizarro

    True Neutral
    Metron, Catwoman (leans to Good), Destiny, Mogo (leans to good), Danny the Street

    Lawful neutral
    Sam Lane, Morpheus, Sgt. Rock (leans to good), Dr. Manhattan

    Lawful Good
    The established law: Superman, Flash, Batgirl, Elongated man (leans to neutral), Zauriel
    Their law: Aquaman, Hawkman, Wonder Woman

    Neutral Good
    Batman, Swamp Thing, Hawkgirl, Black Canary, Green Arrow (leans to anarchic), the Question (leans to anarchic), Plastic Man

    Anarchic good
    Against law: V,
    Indiferent to law: Constantine, Rorschach, Azrael
    Last edited by Rafa-Rivas-2099; 11-02-2012 at 06:44 PM.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  3. #3
    Senior Member dreyga2000's Avatar
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    Mxyzptlk is evil??? What?

    I can't recall the guy ever doing anything malevolent... Annoying yes, but usually he means well...

    I'd say Chaotic good... neutral at worst
    All stories are imaginary, so you get to decide what's important and what isn't. Continuity is fluid.

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    Quoted for truth....

  4. #4
    Power Corrupts Jabare's Avatar
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    so what's the Justice League? Suprman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Aquaman, Flash, Green LAntern? Just Lawful Good?


  5. #5
    The Slender Man vampiric_cannibal's Avatar
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    Ever see the TV Tropes page on alignment? Except in universes which adhere pretty damn closely to it (we're talking things based on D&D. Not the settings, the metagame. Things like OotS), alignment is not clearcut if the character is meaningfully deep. Batman has decent arguments for all 9, with the strongest for Chaotic Evil.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreyga2000 View Post
    Mxyzptlk is evil??? What?

    I can't recall the guy ever doing anything malevolent... Annoying yes, but usually he means well...

    I'd say Chaotic good... neutral at worst
    He's mostly anarchy, but his alignent varies, normally around neutral, but in his biggest story he turned out to be evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    so what's the Justice League? Suprman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Aquaman, Flash, Green LAntern? Just Lawful Good?
    As a group, I'd say lawful good, however a number of them are neutral good: Batman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Zatanna.

    Quote Originally Posted by vampiric_cannibal View Post
    Ever see the TV Tropes page on alignment? Except in universes which adhere pretty damn closely to it (we're talking things based on D&D. Not the settings, the metagame. Things like OotS), alignment is not clearcut if the character is meaningfully deep. Batman has decent arguments for all 9, with the strongest for Chaotic Evil.
    came across some of them. Very interesting. Even within a given alignment, there is a wide arrange of situations. Say someone is Lawful evil, that doesnt cover variables like sanity or power, and even then, one of them could be imposing an established law or their own.

    An yeah, as you said, a character might change lignment through time. Catwoman being the clearest example. I think Batman has been in most spots, but whever did his matrix meme just tried to fill the hole with chaotic evil. I think that matrix shousl be read as "the most chaotic and evil Batman has ever been", not actually chaotic and evil.
    Last edited by Rafa-Rivas-2099; 11-02-2012 at 06:57 PM.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  7. #7
    Got Tickets for SDCC '15! Power Torch's Avatar
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    Ya Lawful Evil works for Poison Ivy, good pick. Though sometimes I think she is written as something else. Like Poison Ivy in No Man's Land was not working against the well being of everybody. Same with a lot of people on the list, different writers and stories make for a changing character lol.

    But ya Lawful Evil sounds good.
    "I'm no KILLER, I merely prevent greedy individuals from despoiling the planet."
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  8. #8
    Ghost of Perdition Nocturnus's Avatar
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    Superman would be Lawfully-good pre-flashpoint. As of New52 his "champion of the opressed" status
    makes him Chaotic-Good.

    Edit: Also this was discussed on the last thread like this, Batman strictly enforces law/justice. He is almost always Lawfully-Good.
    Last edited by Nocturnus; 11-02-2012 at 07:45 PM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturnus View Post
    Superman would be Lawfully-good pre-flashpoint. As of New52 his "champion of the opressed" status
    makes him Chaotic-Good.

    Edit: Also this was discussed on the last thread like this, Batman strictly enforces law/justice. He is almost always Lawfully-Good.
    He's lawful, but he imposes his own code. He's not really working against the law, but against corruption. He wants order, even if his method isn't really working with the established order. Compare him with V, he's against both the corrupton and the laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Power Torch View Post
    Ya Lawful Evil works for Poison Ivy, good pick. Though sometimes I think she is written as something else. Like Poison Ivy in No Man's Land was not working against the well being of everybody. Same with a lot of people on the list, different writers and stories make for a changing character lol.

    But ya Lawful Evil sounds good.
    Poison Ivy is really tough. She's anarchic in that she wants to destroy the current system, but lawful in that she wants to impose her own, which is very drastic with humans and men. We also have to keep in mind that her versin of order would have a lot of holes, since she's a sociopath and doesn't really think torough that kind of things. In general she wants a sort of law and order, so I consider her lawful.

    We can classify a character's means and a character's end.
    Last edited by Rafa-Rivas-2099; 11-02-2012 at 08:03 PM.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  10. #10
    Member sportsguy831's Avatar
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    Green Arrow is anarchic good
    Pull List: Action Comics, Batman, Chew, Hawkeye, Iron Man, Saga, Stormwatch, Wonder Woman

  11. #11
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vampiric_cannibal View Post
    Ever see the TV Tropes page on alignment? Except in universes which adhere pretty damn closely to it (we're talking things based on D&D. Not the settings, the metagame. Things like OotS), alignment is not clearcut if the character is meaningfully deep. Batman has decent arguments for all 9, with the strongest for Chaotic Evil.
    Yeah it is good.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...acterAlignment
    Black History Month & 29 Days in February

  12. #12
    Power Corrupts Jabare's Avatar
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    Is Cyborg still lawful good even though he hacks into stuff all the times and can do what he wants with the worlds computers, and camera's etc?

    We see Batman telling him to manipulate surveillance tech and video all the time in the Justice League. So is he neutral or still lawful?


  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by sportsguy831 View Post
    Green Arrow is anarchic good
    I think he's somewhere between anarchic and lawful in that he reaches where the system fails and goes gainst the corruption.

    I don't have the whole matrix figured out, and I think that it's not an exact thing for anyone. I find good particularly tough. I think that in the end, even Batman is lawful, because he breaks the law, but he wants everybody else to follow it. In recent years he stopped caring about thefts with little or no collateals. Green lantern seems more anarchic, or at least neutral, but in the end he wants everybody to follow leftist, progressive ideals of civism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    Is Cyborg still lawful good even though he hacks into stuff all the times and can do what he wants with the worlds computers, and camera's etc?

    We see Batman telling him to manipulate surveillance tech and video all the time in the Justice League. So is he neutral or still lawful?
    Cyborg would probably be somewhere between lawful and neutral. Probably more lawful, generally speaking.
    Last edited by Rafa-Rivas-2099; 11-02-2012 at 11:36 PM.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

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