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  1. #16
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimRaynor55 View Post
    Reword your question here because I honestly don't know what your gripe is anymore.

    Fact, people are fine with the idea of killing if it comes down to it, to protect the peace.
    You are criticizing KC Wonder Woman for preaching peace yet immediately resorting to violence.

    You are claiming United States police agencies are examples of successfully reconciling that peace/violence paradox and only using force when it is required.

    And I am expressing surprise at that view, which to me, seems as disconnected from reality as the comic books we are discussing.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    You are criticizing KC Wonder Woman for preaching peace yet immediately resorting to violence.
    I already said that KC WW was too eager to kill. The story was also too black-and-white for acting like all killing in combat was bad.

    You are claiming United States police agencies are examples of successfully reconciling that peace/violence paradox and only using force when it is required.
    In practice? No. Philosophically? Yes, and very easily. Knowing only that a cop shot someone in the defense of life, people will not generally assume that the cop is an evil murderer.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomFalls View Post
    Also I am the only person in the world who doesn't like Alex Ross' art. Everyone he paints looks like an out of shape forty year old man in a cheap Halloween costume.
    Aren't all superhero costumes just that?

  4. #19
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia View Post
    Not the way I remember.

    So much in fact the villains at the end actually go to Themyscira to be reformed.
    Yeah, I dont remember that being part of the story.

    However, it does make Diana's fall from grace a bit more unpallatealbe. Because she cant live up to the Amazons ideal of bringing peace, she brings about a war that could destroy the planet.

    In Kingdom Come, Batman acts to save lives, Superman is the one who eventually pulls the fat out of the fire. Wonder Woman is one of the main causes of the problem that ends in disaster.

    That is not to say the villains in the prison are not accountable. They are - there are murderers in there and they deserve to be incarcarated. But the solution is hamfisted, and can only end badly. Very very badly.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  5. #20
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Thing is, with KC, its in many ways a post-apocalyptic tale, in tone, and with stories like that your characters are very often more hardened, and yes, darker. Everyone's affected by it. So Wonder Woman's portrayal never really bothered me. At least no more than Superman's did, or Batman's did, or Billy's did.

  6. #21
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimRaynor55 View Post
    A hypocrite who preaches peace but resorts to combat?
    What? Like most superheroes and even real life cops?
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  7. #22
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    I don't know why some people find that so hard to understand. There are bad cops and misused military forces in real life, but that's not the issue. Cops and armies exist for the expressed purpose of maintaining the peace, with force if necessary. Most people have no problem with that reasoning.

    Yet WW, in KC and on Internet forums, is frequently singled out for supposedly being inconsistent if not hypocritical. Even though other superheroes do the same thing.

  8. #23
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    Actually forget it, I don't have any interest in this discussion.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Boonciaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimRaynor55 View Post
    Yet WW, in KC and on Internet forums, is frequently singled out for supposedly being inconsistent if not hypocritical. Even though other superheroes do the same thing.
    Maybe it's because unlike most superheroes Wonder Woman is explicitly suppose to bring about peace in Man's world. Other superheroes just do their superheroics, save the day, and peace just happens to come as a result of their actions; they're not as in-your-face about bringing about peace.
    Last edited by Boonciaver; 11-02-2012 at 05:33 PM.
    "People don't actually like Wonder Woman. They like the idea in their head of what a "wonder woman" ought to be, which usually bears little resemblance to the character in the comics." - JKCarrier

  10. #25
    Senior Member Boonciaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    Actually forget it, I don't have any interest in this discussion.
    I don't blame you. stk called this bait thread back a page ago.
    "People don't actually like Wonder Woman. They like the idea in their head of what a "wonder woman" ought to be, which usually bears little resemblance to the character in the comics." - JKCarrier

  11. #26
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Thing is, with KC, its in many ways a post-apocalyptic tale, in tone, and with stories like that your characters are very often more hardened, and yes, darker. Everyone's affected by it. So Wonder Woman's portrayal never really bothered me. At least no more than Superman's did, or Batman's did, or Billy's did.
    Yeah, if any group of fans deserves to be outraged by KC, I'd think it would be Captain Marvel fans.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boonciaver View Post
    Maybe it's because unlike most superheroes Wonder Woman is explicitly suppose to bring about peace in Man's world. Other superheroes just do their superheroics, save the day, and peace just happens to come as a result of their actions; they're not as in-your-face about bringing about peace.
    Well yeah that's what I was going to say before editing. Anyway, this stuff gets tiresome.

  13. #28
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Yeah, if any group of fans deserves to be outraged by KC, I'd think it would be Captain Marvel fans.
    Elseworlds had a lot of fun with the "Billy is young and immature so turns villainous in the face of catastrophe" trope in the 90s.

  14. #29
    Best In The World Legato's Avatar
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    Reads the discussion and leaves to look for a more worthwhile discussion.
    "It isn't jumping the shark if you never come back down." Chuck

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomFalls View Post
    Also I am the only person in the world who doesn't like Alex Ross' art. Everyone he paints looks like an out of shape forty year old man in a cheap Halloween costume.
    I think Alex Ross has illustrated one of the more realistic takes of the Justice League. They don't have too much muscle and the fabric they were looks more realistic because it doesn't look like a second skin or body paint. The physique heights are more accurate. He doesn't do a large variety of faces anymore, but at least it's not trying to give us the GQ look.

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