WW in Kingdom Come

[stk]

Reword your question here because I honestly don't know what your gripe is anymore.

Fact, people are fine with the idea of killing if it comes down to it, to protect the peace.

You are criticizing KC Wonder Woman for preaching peace yet immediately resorting to violence.

You are claiming United States police agencies are examples of successfully reconciling that peace/violence paradox and only using force when it is required.

And I am expressing surprise at that view, which to me, seems as disconnected from reality as the comic books we are discussing.

[JimRaynor55]

You are criticizing KC Wonder Woman for preaching peace yet immediately resorting to violence.

I already said that KC WW was too eager to kill. The story was also too black-and-white for acting like all killing in combat was bad.

You are claiming United States police agencies are examples of successfully reconciling that peace/violence paradox and only using force when it is required.

In practice? No. Philosophically? Yes, and very easily. Knowing only that a cop shot someone in the defense of life, people will not generally assume that the cop is an evil murderer.

[Outside_85]

Also I am the only person in the world who doesn't like Alex Ross' art. Everyone he paints looks like an out of shape forty year old man in a cheap Halloween costume.

Aren't all superhero costumes just that?

[brettc1]

Not the way I remember.

So much in fact the villains at the end actually go to Themyscira to be reformed.

Yeah, I dont remember that being part of the story.

However, it does make Diana's fall from grace a bit more unpallatealbe. Because she cant live up to the Amazons ideal of bringing peace, she brings about a war that could destroy the planet.

In Kingdom Come, Batman acts to save lives, Superman is the one who eventually pulls the fat out of the fire. Wonder Woman is one of the main causes of the problem that ends in disaster.

That is not to say the villains in the prison are not accountable. They are - there are murderers in there and they deserve to be incarcarated. But the solution is hamfisted, and can only end badly. Very very badly.

[Sacred Knight]

Thing is, with KC, its in many ways a post-apocalyptic tale, in tone, and with stories like that your characters are very often more hardened, and yes, darker. Everyone's affected by it. So Wonder Woman's portrayal never really bothered me. At least no more than Superman's did, or Batman's did, or Billy's did.

[carabas]

A hypocrite who preaches peace but resorts to combat?

What? Like most superheroes and even real life cops?

[JimRaynor55]

I don't know why some people find that so hard to understand. There are bad cops and misused military forces in real life, but that's not the issue. Cops and armies exist for the expressed purpose of maintaining the peace, with force if necessary. Most people have no problem with that reasoning.

Yet WW, in KC and on Internet forums, is frequently singled out for supposedly being inconsistent if not hypocritical. Even though other superheroes do the same thing.

[Mr. Holmes]

Actually forget it, I don't have any interest in this discussion.

[Boonciaver]

Yet WW, in KC and on Internet forums, is frequently singled out for supposedly being inconsistent if not hypocritical. Even though other superheroes do the same thing.

Maybe it's because unlike most superheroes Wonder Woman is explicitly suppose to bring about peace in Man's world. Other superheroes just do their superheroics, save the day, and peace just happens to come as a result of their actions; they're not as in-your-face about bringing about peace.

[Boonciaver]

Actually forget it, I don't have any interest in this discussion.

I don't blame you. stk called this bait thread back a page ago.

[stk]

Thing is, with KC, its in many ways a post-apocalyptic tale, in tone, and with stories like that your characters are very often more hardened, and yes, darker. Everyone's affected by it. So Wonder Woman's portrayal never really bothered me. At least no more than Superman's did, or Batman's did, or Billy's did.

Yeah, if any group of fans deserves to be outraged by KC, I'd think it would be Captain Marvel fans.

[Mr. Holmes]

Maybe it's because unlike most superheroes Wonder Woman is explicitly suppose to bring about peace in Man's world. Other superheroes just do their superheroics, save the day, and peace just happens to come as a result of their actions; they're not as in-your-face about bringing about peace.

Well yeah that's what I was going to say before editing. Anyway, this stuff gets tiresome.

[Sacred Knight]

Yeah, if any group of fans deserves to be outraged by KC, I'd think it would be Captain Marvel fans.

Elseworlds had a lot of fun with the "Billy is young and immature so turns villainous in the face of catastrophe" trope in the 90s.

[Legato]

Reads the discussion and leaves to look for a more worthwhile discussion.

[Red Mask]

Also I am the only person in the world who doesn't like Alex Ross' art. Everyone he paints looks like an out of shape forty year old man in a cheap Halloween costume.

I think Alex Ross has illustrated one of the more realistic takes of the Justice League. They don't have too much muscle and the fabric they were looks more realistic because it doesn't look like a second skin or body paint. The physique heights are more accurate. He doesn't do a large variety of faces anymore, but at least it's not trying to give us the GQ look.