View Poll Results: What roles would you have given them?

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  • Bishop as baby killer and Cable as Daddy

    2 13.33%
  • Cable as Daddy and Bishop as baby killer

    5 33.33%
  • Other (Please Specify)

    8 53.33%
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  1. #76
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imperial90 View Post
    I just said Bishop does not have the back story to play so central a role in the X-men mythos, choosing him over Cable would be like choosing Rogue to lead the X-men over Cyclops after M-day, she has leadership experience but the way the x-universe is set up she would need a lot more development to make her the reasonable choice for that role. Same with Bishop, sure, he could do it, but he would need that development for him to take that role and have it make any sense in the greater X-universe, and that development takes time, far more time then the planning that went into Messiah Complex, that's like a half a decade of preparation all just so they could give Bishop that central role, marvel never plans anything that long in advanced in any sort of detail.
    How was Bishop experienced enough to play a central role in the Onslaught Saga? How was he experienced enough to play a central role in the AoA saga? How was he experienced enough to be a founding member of the Xtreme X-men which laid the groundwork for the importance of Desitiny's Diaries? Please, this seems like circular reasoning to me. You have already decided Bishop couldn't do it and now you are back filling an argument in order to support your conclusion. The reality is Bishop has been central to a lot of key X-men stories previously so this argument doesn't make sense.

    As for this notion that you have to be a Summers to be important. I guess having Captain America choosing Havok as leader for UA despite his not leading an X-team in ages and his being relatively inexperienced and incompetent at it when he did is cause for celebration. Lest we forget, Cap also liked him because he had a clean look. Sorry, I didn't realise nepotism was suddenly a good thing. So no I don't buy the Summers connection was needed especially when it has proven to be pretty worthless thus far with regards to Hope's story. It has added nothing to the story as far as I can tell.
    Last edited by remydat; 11-04-2012 at 01:34 AM.
    It's hard for me to listen to people not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

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  2. #77
    HopeistheGreatestofEvils Atomiq's Avatar
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    Cable has had a solo on and off for years. The whole reason they bothered showing what happens to Hope in the future was to sell Cable comics. It was never going to be anyone other than him.

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomiq View Post
    Cable has had a solo on and off for years. The whole reason they bothered showing what happens to Hope in the future was to sell Cable comics. It was never going to be anyone other than him.
    That equates to lazy uninspired writing.This is whats hurt x-books right now is they cant write themselves out of wolv/clops fever.

  4. #79
    Senior Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    I guess having Captain America choosing Havok as leader for UA despite his not leading an X-team in ages and his being relatively inexperienced and incompetent at it when he did is cause for celebration.
    Relative to who? The X-Men only have a few real leaders, Xavier, Banshee, Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, Archangel and Nightcrawler were out of the picture. That puts Havok pretty high up the pecking order. Wolverine wasn't really the right move being one of the sides in the Schism and didn't exactly come out of AvX with clean hands. Storm and Rogue would've made more sense but Havok not THAT crazy a choice.

  5. #80
    HopeistheGreatestofEvils Atomiq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dkrook View Post
    That equates to lazy uninspired writing.This is whats hurt x-books right now is they cant write themselves out of wolv/clops fever.
    I think the first thing a competent writer would do when tasked with writing a Cable series is make it star Cable. It has nothing to do with Cyclops, that guy has about as much chance of holding down a solo ongoing as Bishop would.

    If it was anyone other than Cable, Hope's upbringing would have happened off panel.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomiq View Post
    I think the first thing a competent writer would do when tasked with writing a Cable series is make it star Cable. It has nothing to do with Cyclops, that guy has about as much chance of holding down a solo ongoing as Bishop would.

    If it was anyone other than Cable, Hope's upbringing would have happened off panel.
    Which is still pretty sad

  7. #82
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
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    There are more than enough villains out there that would have made more suitable baby eaters. There was zero need to destroy a character like Cable or Bishop. Baby killing is always always always an irredeemably evil thing, even if the baby might grow up to destroy trillions.
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  8. #83
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    Relative to who? The X-Men only have a few real leaders, Xavier, Banshee, Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, Archangel and Nightcrawler were out of the picture. That puts Havok pretty high up the pecking order. Wolverine wasn't really the right move being one of the sides in the Schism and didn't exactly come out of AvX with clean hands. Storm and Rogue would've made more sense but Havok not THAT crazy a choice.
    Right so they choose the blond haired blue eyed Aryan who happened to be the brother of Cyke over 2 arguably more qualified women one of which also happens to be from an ethnic minority. And let's ignore people like Cannonball and Danni Moonstar both of whom have more recently led X-men teams. But again, I guess we can't have Southerners and Native American women leading because they are not clean enough. I will give you Kitty probably wants to stay as headmistress but did her name even come up?

    Look, Havok was not a crazy choice. He was a curious choice given his absence the past few years and the fact that the other more qualified candidates would have been more diverse choices. Not to mention, I don't recall Cap even suggesting he looked at the potential candidates. It was like he settled on the nice clean looking brother of Cyke without a second thought which is what made it seem so good old boys like.
    Last edited by remydat; 11-04-2012 at 09:49 AM.
    It's hard for me to listen to people not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

    "Let me go first Lorna. I'm their freaking King!"

  9. #84
    Hard-Headed Ingonyama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    There are more than enough villains out there that would have made more suitable baby eaters. There was zero need to destroy a character like Cable or Bishop. Baby killing is always always always an irredeemably evil thing, even if the baby might grow up to destroy trillions.
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  10. #85
    Senior Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Right so they choose the blond haired blue eyed Aryan who happened to be the brother of Cyke over 2 arguably more qualified women one of which also happens to be from an ethnic minority. And let's ignore people like Cannonball and Danni Moonstar both of whom have more recently led X-men teams. But again, I guess we can't have Southerners and Native American women leading because they are not clean enough. I will give you Kitty probably wants to stay as headmistress but did her name even come up?

    Look, Havok was not a crazy choice. He was a curious choice given his absence the past few years and the fact that the other more qualified candidates would have been more diverse choices. Not to mention, I don't recall Cap even suggesting he looked at the potential candidates. It was like he settled on the nice clean looking brother of Cyke without a second thought which is what made it seem so good old boys like.
    We see him looking at candidates at the end of AvX 12.

  11. #86
    Senior Member Meehl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Right so they choose the blond haired blue eyed Aryan who happened to be the brother of Cyke over 2 arguably more qualified women one of which also happens to be from an ethnic minority. And let's ignore people like Cannonball and Danni Moonstar both of whom have more recently led X-men teams. But again, I guess we can't have Southerners and Native American women leading because they are not clean enough. I will give you Kitty probably wants to stay as headmistress but did her name even come up?

    Look, Havok was not a crazy choice. He was a curious choice given his absence the past few years and the fact that the other more qualified candidates would have been more diverse choices. Not to mention, I don't recall Cap even suggesting he looked at the potential candidates. It was like he settled on the nice clean looking brother of Cyke without a second thought which is what made it seem so good old boys like.
    The last time Havok led an X-men team, they were so incompetently led that they were nearly all killed by mechanical cyborgs. They had to retreat through the Siege Perilous, and Wolverine was crucified.

    Cap choose Havok to lead the new Avengers X-team because it's the easiest way to assure that they're all killed off.
    Last edited by Meehl; 11-04-2012 at 10:27 AM.
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  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Right so they choose the blond haired blue eyed Aryan who happened to be the brother of Cyke over 2 arguably more qualified women one of which also happens to be from an ethnic minority. And let's ignore people like Cannonball and Danni Moonstar both of whom have more recently led X-men teams. But again, I guess we can't have Southerners and Native American women leading because they are not clean enough. I will give you Kitty probably wants to stay as headmistress but did her name even come up?

    Look, Havok was not a crazy choice. He was a curious choice given his absence the past few years and the fact that the other more qualified candidates would have been more diverse choices. Not to mention, I don't recall Cap even suggesting he looked at the potential candidates. It was like he settled on the nice clean looking brother of Cyke without a second thought which is what made it seem so good old boys like.
    Havok was chosen because Remender wanted to write him. I don't think it was for any reason other than that. They tried to spin it so the decision to make him the leader made sense but it's obvious people didn't buy it. It just ended up making Cap and Marvel look racist.

    On Bishop and Cable, I always thought it made more sense to have Cable raise Hope rather than Bishop because of Cable's connection to Scott. Do you think Bishop would have convinced Scott to let him take her away and bring her back? At the end of the day, Scott's gamble on Hope was really a gamble on Cable.

  13. #88
    Senior Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meehl View Post
    The last time Havok led an X-men team, they were so incompetently led that they were nearly all killed by mechanical cyborgs. They had to retreat through the Siege Perilous, and Wolverine was crucified.

    Cap choose Havok to lead the new Avengers X-team because it's the easiest way to assure that they're all killed off.
    Havok's led two X-Men teams after he came back from the dead. It didn't end well but it ended better then Rogue's only X-Men team (Legacy was more teacher/councillor position). Anyway, Sam is the one that started the whole "X-Force bombs mutant-discriminatory organisation" things, obviously it wasn't gonna be him. It should've been Storm, but not writing her wasn't Remenders decision.

  14. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by jollygoldfish View Post
    Havok was chosen because Remender wanted to write him. I don't think it was for any reason other than that. They tried to spin it so the decision to make him the leader made sense but it's obvious people didn't buy it. It just ended up making Cap and Marvel look racist.

    On Bishop and Cable, I always thought it made more sense to have Cable raise Hope rather than Bishop because of Cable's connection to Scott. Do you think Bishop would have convinced Scott to let him take her away and bring her back? At the end of the day, Scott's gamble on Hope was really a gamble on Cable.
    Bishop had long been a more known quantity, proven that to be loyal to a cause, very intelligent, and equal amount grit with high level of resolve. Bishop has vast amount of experience in protecting if anyone remebers that he lived in alternate timeline and was charged with protecting young powerless child and a fledgling group of mutants. i think it boils down to the appearances of having a young black warrior father a young white child.

  15. #90
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    We see him looking at candidates at the end of AvX 12.
    Who were the other choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by jollygoldfish View Post
    Havok was chosen because Remender wanted to write him. I don't think it was for any reason other than that. They tried to spin it so the decision to make him the leader made sense but it's obvious people didn't buy it. It just ended up making Cap and Marvel look racist.

    On Bishop and Cable, I always thought it made more sense to have Cable raise Hope rather than Bishop because of Cable's connection to Scott. Do you think Bishop would have convinced Scott to let him take her away and bring her back? At the end of the day, Scott's gamble on Hope was really a gamble on Cable.
    Yes I know Marvel wasn't trying to be racist, I was just making fun of the fact that it could so easily be interpreted that way. It's like they were completely oblivious to how it looked. As for Cable and Bishop, I think you are assuming it was Cyke's call to make because that is how the writer wrote it. The reality is Cable or Bishop could have told Cyke to F off and absconded with the child. Not sure when I (Cable or Bishop) spent all my time trying to save the baby while you (Cyke) were trying to kill me and when the only reason the baby was rescued was because of an X-man (Gambit) not working for you delivering her to the mentor you hated (Xavier), why anyone would care about your opinion on the matter.

    And if you are telling me Cyke is incapable of trusting anyone but his immediate family then I would suggest that he is a poor leader. Nepotism has proven to be a pretty crappy system.
    Last edited by remydat; 11-05-2012 at 12:28 AM.
    It's hard for me to listen to people not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

    "Let me go first Lorna. I'm their freaking King!"

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