The question of Bishop and Cable's roles regarding Hope

[remydat]

I like that you consider Bishop's intimate attachment to a holographic AI program a positive characteristic that should argue against him being mentally unhinged. It really says a lot about you.

Also, the new information regarding Bishop's origin (e.g., Gambit/Storm teaching Bishop to hate Hope through lies and manipulation) was retroactively always true. He was nuts because he made to be a loaded weapon.

As I understand it, Shard existed as brainwaves. Only someone with the mistaken belief that we are merely lumps of flesh would see a problem with Bishop being attached to the brainwaves ie the consciousness of his sister as if her existing only as that consciousness makes her less human or deserving of affection. Hell Iceman and Rockslide are essentially psychic entities that are simply capable of forming bodies from ice and rocks. I think Shadow King and Malice are also similar as psychic entities. In fact, I am pretty sure it was implied that the technology that the Witness used to save Shard's brainwaves/essence is the same Shiar technology that created Danger. Point is in the realm of sci-fi and comics, I think Shard is clearly sentient and there is nothing unusual about it so sorry try again.

And the new information regarding Bishop's origin is irrelevant. My OP was taking the position that we were in the planning meeting deciding on how MC would play out. Obviously, if they had decided Bishop was to be the father figure then his origin would not have been retconned the way it was.

[SayOcean]

I like that you consider Bishop's intimate attachment to a holographic AI program a positive characteristic that should argue against him being mentally unhinged. It really says a lot about you.

Same could be said for taking a kid who is basically the spitting image of your mother into the future and raising her.

I thought it was simple why they chose cable as the father figure...can't have a black guy alone in the future raising a white girl...

[Juggernaut Punch]

Yeah don't know why I said Forge, brain fart, lol. As for making the threat seem larger, the problem and this would have been true with Cable is they never delivered on that threat. We still don't really know in enough detail what happened or what Bishop thinks happened. Now maybe that is a story still waiting to be told down the line but if this is it for that storyline then we are left feeling like Bishop went batshit crazy over a vague threat.

We have seen his future and there its common knowledge that Hope killed a million humans and got mutants sent to camps and led to the US being ruled to an authoritarian government, so we do know there's a threat, we just haven't seen exactly how it came about yet.

[remydat]

We have seen his future and there its common knowledge that Hope killed a million humans and got mutants sent to camps and led to the US being ruled to an authoritarian government, so we do know there's a threat, we just haven't seen exactly how it came about yet.

We know Hope was blamed for killing 1 million mutants. Marvel could decide tomorrow that Hope was framed for the crime and didn't actually kill anyone. Lest we forget at one time Bishop thought Gambit was the X-traitor.

[Juggernaut Punch]

We know Hope was blamed for killing 1 million mutants. Marvel could decide tomorrow that Hope was framed for the crime and didn't actually kill anyone. Lest we forget at one time Bishop thought Gambit was the X-traitor.

Its common knowledge in his world and future Storm confirmed it. Of course it could change at any time however.

[mikekerrIII]

Its common knowledge in his world and future Storm confirmed it. Of course it could change at any time however.

Common knowledge about historical fact is often wrong, For example: most folks think the Japanese shot first at Pearl Harbor.

[remydat]

Its common knowledge in his world and future Storm confirmed it. Of course it could change at any time however.

Any everyone in the world and future Storm could be mistaken. Point is, I would prefer a definitive explanation.

[Meehl]

Its common knowledge in his world and future Storm confirmed it. Of course it could change at any time however.

Common knowledge can be wrong. Also, Storm was portrayed as a manipulator in that series. She could have made the whole thing up for all we know.

As I understand it, Shard existed as brainwaves. Only someone with the mistaken belief that we are merely lumps of flesh would see a problem with Bishop being attached to the brainwaves ie the consciousness of his sister as if her existing only as that consciousness makes her less human or deserving of affection. Hell Iceman and Rockslide are essentially psychic entities that are simply capable of forming bodies from ice and rocks. I think Shadow King and Malice are also similar as psychic entities. In fact, I am pretty sure it was implied that the technology that the Witness used to save Shard's brainwaves/essence is the same Shiar technology that created Danger. Point is in the realm of sci-fi and comics, I think Shard is clearly sentient and there is nothing unusual about it so sorry try again.

And the new information regarding Bishop's origin is irrelevant. My OP was taking the position that we were in the planning meeting deciding on how MC would play out. Obviously, if they had decided Bishop was to be the father figure then his origin would not have been retconned the way it was.

Shard was a replica AI of the real Shard. That's different from modern day mutants who can modify their bodies. Bishop's obsession with his fake sister was smoke to the eventual crazy fire that you happened to miss.

[Dkrook]

Common knowledge can be wrong. Also, Storm was portrayed as a manipulator in that series. She could have made the whole thing up for all we know.



Shard was a replica AI of the real Shard. That's different from modern day mutants who can modify their bodies. Bishop's obsession with his fake sister was smoke to the eventual crazy fire that you happened to miss.

First Bishop wasnt crazy at all, the dude was the victim of a crappy marvel rewrite of his history and purpose for the sake of hope.

[Monty_Cristo]

Do you really think in real life that Bishop's different experience of loss would prevent him from being Hope's guardian as if humans are robots and it's like "sorry, you are not compatible." If every story required people to have the exact same background then it would be pretty boring storytelling and would not be reflecting of real life.

"Oh look, another Summers affiliated kid with awesome power hunted by people who would seek to control that power. Nope haven't heard that one before." Typically the less cliche and repetitive a story, the better. Hope's story was repetitive and cliche especially when you add in the fact she is a red head with ties to the Phoenix and her powers are essentially Rogue's but without the downside. I am shocked they didn't put her in a wheelchair and shave her head at some point.

you're not even listening to me. i'll repeat. it has nothing to do with Bishop's past. Cable's past is more aligned with Hope's. that makes it a better story.

[remydat]

you're not even listening to me. i'll repeat. it has nothing to do with Bishop's past. Cable's past is more aligned with Hope's. that makes it a better story.

You said losing a kid was different than losing a sibling and then you specifically said that they could tell a story of Bishop being a kid's guardian but not Hope because presumably he can't identify with her. My first paragraph was responding to that train of thought by saying that made no sense because it is not required for someone to experience the exact same loss in order for people to relate or identify.

You then said Cable's past is more aligned with Hope and I responde that it also makes using Cable in that role somewhat formulaic and cliche. We have seen this story before and it is rather unoriginal.

So I am not quite sure why you think I am not listening to you. I responded to the specific items you brought up. If it was nothing to do with Bishop then you should not have tried to suggest that his past made him a poor choice of guardian which is clearly what your post implied.

[remydat]

Shard was a replica AI of the real Shard. That's different from modern day mutants who can modify their bodies. Bishop's obsession with his fake sister was smoke to the eventual crazy fire that you happened to miss.

Find me any evidence that Shard was merely a replica. Everything I can find (see links below) suggests it was not just an AI. It was her actual brainwaves or essence that was stored in a holographic image. I suppose you think the canon that exists in your head trumps the canon that exists in the comics but sorry it doesn't work like that. It was essentially the consciousness of his sister transferred to a hologram. Now you are free to believe whatever you want but unless you have something from a comic to back up your claims then I really don't care to here your unsubstantiated opinions however convinced you may be of them.

http://www.comicvine.com/shard/29-6048/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shard_(comics)

http://marvel.com/universe/Shard

[imperial90]

Grey-Summers clan>Bishop clan, call it formulaic if you want, the Grey-Summers family is important, the Bishops aren't. Using Bishop in the same role and insuring that Hope would play as central a role in the X-universe would be SO much more work then just using the existing connotations attached to the Grey-Summers clan.

Having Hope be a Summers embeds her into the mythos far more easily then if she was a Bishop, Bishop himself could never hope to play a central a roll to the franchise over a long period without decades of development like the Grey-Summers clan has.

As such, Cable was always going to be the better and easier choice even before you get into the whole messianic parallels, its just a much better fit with the way the settings been structured over the last 49 years of X-comics.

[remydat]

Grey-Summers clan>Bishop clan, call it formulaic if you want, the Grey-Summers family is important, the Bishops aren't. Using Bishop in the same role and insuring that Hope would play as central a role in the X-universe would be SO much more work then just using the existing connotations attached to the Grey-Summers clan.

Having Hope be a Summers embeds her into the mythos far more easily then if she was a Bishop, Bishop himself could never hope to play a central a roll to the franchise over a long period without decades of development like the Grey-Summers clan has.

As such, Cable was always going to be the better and easier choice even before you get into the whole messianic parallels, its just a much better fit with the way the settings been structured over the last 49 years of X-comics.

Right so this argument seems to be summed up by the following: "The writers aren't capable of being creative and developing a character so it is better and easier if they just stick to the same tired formula." By this logic then we should make all the new mutants that spring up as a result of AvX Grey-Summers so the writers lack of creativity and talent is not exposed. Maybe I just expect more from a decent writer. I expect him/her to make me interested in a character on the merits of that character and that character alone.

[JaggedFel]

Nah Marvel will always reach for the easiest option.