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  1. #271
    Peter Parker Darman456's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atlasjj View Post
    I really enjoyed Peter in Ultimate Spider-Man. But his death meant something. And by bringing him back it will take that meaning away.

    In fact it would take away any suspense for any character in the Ultimate U. If Bendis and Marvel can in fact keep the "Dead Means Dead" rule post DOSM I would like that. Because it would give us the suspense 616 can't.

    Also by having his death stay intact you have a complete story with Ultimate Peter, a beginning, middle and end. Something most comic book super heroes don't have. And for a character as huge as Peter I think that means something.
    Everyone MUST DIE!

    Tony Stark: You are NOT a Legacy character. Death sentence.
    Thor: You are NOT a Legacy character. Death sentence.

    If anything Ultimate Comics are MORE predictable than 616. 616 may bring back characters but sometimes it comes with a really good story. You have to be intuitive when writing it. It is EASY to kill characters and replace them just to show...what? That you CAN? Well, then all the respect I had for this universe has dissipated. I used to love it. Heck, I even stuck around after Ultimatum. But this whole idea of "I'll kill someone because I can" has to end. Because it's not a creative way to revamp a character. It's the easiest way to. Sad that writers, who are SUPPOSED to be creative, can't be.
    "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "With great power comes great responsibility."

  2. #272
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroid View Post
    There's no need for a clone. What will happen is that there will be a war for control of the Zodiac Key. Miles will be involved. The results will be tragic for him. At the end, Miles will have the key. He will not feel like the winner. What he will say as he holds it in hollow victory will be something like, "I just want things to go back to how they were before I became Spider-man..." Then, Ultimate Spider-man #1 will come out picking up with Peter Parker somewhere before the Death of Spider-man "event" -- maybe even before the Ultimatum "event". I predict this to be next summer's Ultimate U. crossover event -- the resetting of the U.U.
    I'm ok with this! Though I don't want Miles to be erased.
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  3. #273
    Junior Member Jarocho's Avatar
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    I have done a 180.

    While cooking my breakfast I started imagining how Marvel 616 could have been written over the last year. I came to the easy conclusion that Bendis' Spider-Man is the best I have ever read, with the most interesting supporting cast and the most likable version of Peter Parker ever created. Not to place too much work in the man's hands, but I think he can handle writing two Spider-Men in the Ultimate Universe.

    I vote for transporter duplication la Thomas Riker. Just slot it in as a sequel to the Spider-Men crossover.

  4. #274
    "Eh, What's up Doc?" Spider-Frog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarocho View Post
    I have done a 180.

    While cooking my breakfast I started imagining how Marvel 616 could have been written over the last year. I came to the easy conclusion that Bendis' Spider-Man is the best I have ever read, with the most interesting supporting cast and the most likable version of Peter Parker ever created. Not to place too much work in the man's hands, but I think he can handle writing two Spider-Men in the Ultimate Universe.

    I vote for transporter duplication la Thomas Riker. Just slot it in as a sequel to the Spider-Men crossover.
    While deeply shamed that I actually got that reference: I love the idea.

    Can you imagine the debates between the poor sots who would consider him a clone and the Trekkies who would rightfully insist that he isn't. LOL!

  5. #275
    Junior Member Jarocho's Avatar
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    I just thought of something really cheap...

    616 Peter Parker is accidentally duplicated in the Ultimate Universe after Shield finds a copy of his brain wave whatever in Mysterio's portal whatsit. Thing is, Peter's brain was never on track with his actual age and the new Peter is much, much younger.

    *Boom* We have a 20 year old Peter adjusting to a new world, an 18 year old Mary Jane (fudge the numbers), and 13 year old Miles playing Robin.

    I would buy 10 copies.

  6. #276
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darman456 View Post
    But this whole idea of "I'll kill someone because I can" has to end. Because it's not a creative way to revamp a character. It's the easiest way to. Sad that writers, who are SUPPOSED to be creative, can't be.
    "I'll kill someone because I can" also exists just as much, if not more, in 616. The only difference there is that they also have the "I'll bring someone back because I can," which doesn't inherently lead itself to any better storytelling than "I'll kill someone because I can." And really, that's how ALL stories work, because these people have all the control. It's not JUST deaths. Every story idea can be boiled down to:

    "I'll ________ because I can."

    "I'll make these characters have sex because I can."
    "I'll use Thor as a bad guy because I can."
    "I'll put together a team called the Avengers because I can."

    Everyone who complains about Peter's death being "uncreative" offers up alternatives that are just as uncreative, because there are nearly a century's worth of superhero stories that have done pretty much everything you can in these situations.

    "SHIELD could have faked Peter's death and he operates as a rogue agent." - It's been done
    "Peter could have retired from being Spider-man to let Miles take over." - It's been done
    "Peter could have taken on Miles as a sidekick." - It's been done.
    "Miles could have been a second Spider-man, acting separately from Peter." - It's been done
    I like Ultimate Comics. - Read them with us!

    I also buy: Captain America, Avengers, FF, New Avengers, X-Factor, among others

  7. #277
    Peter Parker Darman456's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    "I'll kill someone because I can" also exists just as much, if not more, in 616. The only difference there is that they also have the "I'll bring someone back because I can," which doesn't inherently lead itself to any better storytelling than "I'll kill someone because I can." And really, that's how ALL stories work, because these people have all the control. It's not JUST deaths. Every story idea can be boiled down to:

    "I'll ________ because I can."

    "I'll make these characters have sex because I can."
    "I'll use Thor as a bad guy because I can."
    "I'll put together a team called the Avengers because I can."

    Everyone who complains about Peter's death being "uncreative" offers up alternatives that are just as uncreative, because there are nearly a century's worth of superhero stories that have done pretty much everything you can in these situations.

    "SHIELD could have faked Peter's death and he operates as a rogue agent." - It's been done
    "Peter could have retired from being Spider-man to let Miles take over." - It's been done
    "Peter could have taken on Miles as a sidekick." - It's been done.
    "Miles could have been a second Spider-man, acting separately from Peter." - It's been done
    However, there are other ways to revamp the franchise. Has Peter been an X-Men before? No? Let's do that. Have everyone know who Peter is and have him work his way through that WITHOUT making a deal with the devil. Never been done. That's FUN! That's creative! And we can introduce this cool new Spider-Man while Peter's Spider-Man is with the X-Men. Aren't we glad we didn't kill Peter but brought back interest to make more money besides the sudden sales boost? Great idea.

    Killing Peter? Let's get that quick sales bump and then let the comic's sales continue to fall through the revamp. Sad. Should've been more creative.
    "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "With great power comes great responsibility."

  8. #278
    Junior Member Jarocho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darman456 View Post
    However, there are other ways to revamp the franchise. Has Peter been an X-Men before? No? Let's do that. Have everyone know who Peter is and have him work his way through that WITHOUT making a deal with the devil. Never been done. That's FUN! That's creative! And we can introduce this cool new Spider-Man while Peter's Spider-Man is with the X-Men. Aren't we glad we didn't kill Peter but brought back interest to make more money besides the sudden sales boost? Great idea.

    Killing Peter? Let's get that quick sales bump and then let the comic's sales continue to fall through the revamp. Sad. Should've been more creative.
    It has been said that there are only seven plots. My favorite simplification says there is only one. "A character has an internal struggle and learns how to overcome it." In this way classic plot points transform into more fluid elements which the protagonist must navigate in ever more inventive ways.

    Marvel is very top heavy now. Fear Itself nearly became a story of heroes facing self-doubt in the face of unstoppable foe. It turned into a rehash of old plot points and marketing and was universally panned. Seeing that, Marvel tried Avengers vs. X-Men, a rehash of the same costumes, characters, and plot points in a slightly different way.

    The silliest fanboy idea can be turned into a great comic book story, but Marvel creators dont' have that freedom. Mostly they aim for a "controversial" point B and double ship until they get there.

  9. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarocho View Post
    It has been said that there are only seven plots. My favorite simplification says there is only one. "A character has an internal struggle and learns how to overcome it." In this way classic plot points transform into more fluid elements which the protagonist must navigate in ever more inventive ways.

    Marvel is very top heavy now. Fear Itself nearly became a story of heroes facing self-doubt in the face of unstoppable foe. It turned into a rehash of old plot points and marketing and was universally panned. Seeing that, Marvel tried Avengers vs. X-Men, a rehash of the same costumes, characters, and plot points in a slightly different way.

    The silliest fanboy idea can be turned into a great comic book story, but Marvel creators dont' have that freedom. Mostly they aim for a "controversial" point B and double ship until they get there.
    Marvel creators also have to deal with an editorial policy that abuses their fans' obsession with continuity to boost sales through mediocre cross-over "events" (like Death of Spider-man). If the writers and artists were as free now as they were back in the 60's and 70's when all they had to worry about was keeping a "feel" of the same world without having to try to be "architects" of a cohesive world history, then you would see better comics. And you would also have fewer writers quitting books and swearing off of working for Marvel (or DC for that matter).

    And they need to bring Ultimate Peter Parker -- the REAL one -- back NOW!!!

  10. #280
    Peter Parker Darman456's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroid View Post
    Marvel creators also have to deal with an editorial policy that abuses their fans' obsession with continuity to boost sales through mediocre cross-over "events" (like Death of Spider-man). If the writers and artists were as free now as they were back in the 60's and 70's when all they had to worry about was keeping a "feel" of the same world without having to try to be "architects" of a cohesive world history, then you would see better comics. And you would also have fewer writers quitting books and swearing off of working for Marvel (or DC for that matter).

    And they need to bring Ultimate Peter Parker -- the REAL one -- back NOW!!!
    I agree they need to bring back Peter. However, I like the cohesive universe deal where the continuity is connected to each other.
    "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "With great power comes great responsibility."

  11. #281
    Peter Parker Darman456's Avatar
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    I used the Death of Spider-Man story under different circumstances (so Peter ends up alive) to kick off my fan fix story. Peter joins the X-Men team instead of dying since everyone knows who he is. So, if anyone wants, they can join me after they read the circumstances I left our launch platform under.
    "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "With great power comes great responsibility."

  12. #282

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darman456 View Post
    I agree they need to bring back Peter. However, I like the cohesive universe deal where the continuity is connected to each other.
    I prefer a consistent universe to a strictly structured universe where everyone is basically telling one story. I mean, look at the writers who have left best-selling titles because they were forced to participate in cross-over "events". I remember when DC lost Chuck Dixon off of Robin because of No Man's Land. No Man's Land turned out to be a pretty crappy story, and Robin was never a very good book after Dixon left. Look at Rucka leaving first DC and then Marvel because of editorially conceived and plotted storylines. I can't imagine Carmine Infantino or Dick Giordano micromanaging DC the way Lee and Didio are. Even Stan Lee didn't interfere like that with writers who were writing characters he co-created back when he was the EIC at Marvel.

    Continuity is not neccessarily bad, but the powers-that-be at Marvel and DC abuse it to try to force fans to buy comics they normally would not. And fans are dumb enough to do it time after time and then complain when the "event" is over. This type of thinking is why after a life-time of reading and enjoying both Marvel and DC, I no longer read a single comic from either publisher (except for Fables).
    Last edited by Heroid; 12-21-2012 at 02:08 PM.

  13. #283
    Funky Lantern Corpsman
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    I recently finished reading all USM issues, and I *do* want peter back - see my latest post on anpther USM thread as to what I'd do:

    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...Year-One/page2

  14. #284
    Peter Parker Darman456's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonG View Post
    I recently finished reading all USM issues, and I *do* want peter back - see my latest post on anpther USM thread as to what I'd do:

    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...Year-One/page2
    My reply or opinions on the same thing are also in the thread here.
    "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "With great power comes great responsibility."

  15. #285

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    Since we no longer have 616 Peter Parker (as the UU Peter Parker haters keep telling us) then they should bring back Ultimate Peter Parker NOW! We need our Peter Parker fix!

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