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  1. #196
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    Having a sales pike for a few months is not a long term victory by any means.
    Sure, but if it works won't they keep it? I doubt Marvel decides to do something like that if it's just "yeah, keep them around for 2 issues and then they are done". Obviously they are playing for the maximum success.

    I mean what you said can also be applied to Miles in some way. Kill of Peter, bring in a new Spider-Man, generate controversy and boom, sales spike.
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  2. #197
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    Sure, but if it works won't they keep it?
    Marvel NOW is pretty much giving tons of free #1s and having the stores putting these said issues for under 1$ bargains because the stores have too many of them, considering Marvel doens't give anything in return for sending old Marvel comics/covers, just their competitors.

    Can you tell me what has worked for these relaunches outside of higher Diamondlist order and then just falling right back where they began? Can you tell me what does this accomplish or help with your argument regarding Peter Parker?

    I doubt Marvel decides to do something like that if it's just "yeah, keep them around for 2 issues and then they are done". Obviously they are playing for the maximum success.
    Which for them right now is 3.99$ titles, double-shipping, Event after another Event, tons of tie-ins with the said events and so forward. Are you suggesting Ultimate Marvel needs another event right after Divided We Fall, United We Stand? Even tho theri USA Today promotion for President Captain America accomplished absolutely nothing? Marvel isn't reaching new audiences, but simply charging more for their already consumers. The idea of business is to gain as many customers as possible.
    I mean what you said can also be applied to Miles in some way. Kill of Peter, bring in a new Spider-Man, generate controversy and boom, sales spike.
    And we still have about the same amount of readers as Ultimate Parker had, so again, what would Peter Parker coming back accomplish?

    Do you even know what you're arguing about? 1st you claimed keeping things as closely related to the movies and tv shows helps, but you have nothing to show for it.
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  3. #198
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    Marvel NOW is pretty much giving tons of free #1s and having the stores putting these said issues for under 1$ bargains because the stores have too many of them, considering Marvel doens't give anything in return for sending old Marvel comics/covers, just their competitors.

    Can you tell me what has worked for these relaunches outside of higher Diamondlist order and then just falling right back where they began? Can you tell me what does this accomplish or help with your argument regarding Peter Parker?


    Which for them right now is 3.99$ titles, double-shipping, Event after another Event, tons of tie-ins with the said events and so forward. Are you suggesting Ultimate Marvel needs another event right after Divided We Fall, United We Stand? Even tho theri USA Today promotion for President Captain America accomplished absolutely nothing? Marvel isn't reaching new audiences, but simply charging more for their already consumers. The idea of business is to gain as many customers as possible.


    And we still have about the same amount of readers as Ultimate Parker had, so again, what would Peter Parker coming back accomplish?

    Do you even know what you're arguing about? 1st you claimed keeping things as closely related to the movies and tv shows helps, but you have nothing to show for it.

    If you read what I wrote, I never claimed to have the facts, only what I though made sense and what I had read. you don't have to be all bitter about it. it's just comics man!

    And where you say "And we still have about the same amount of readers as Ultimate Parker had, so again, what would Peter Parker coming back accomplish?" I say to you the same thing. If we are only looking at numbers, what did Miles accomplish?

    Regarding what I can actually answer...Where the hell do I suggest more events?

    I can also tell you, using logic, that if someone is introduced to Spider-Man through the movies, they will probably want to read about Peter Parker, not anyone else. Because they want to prolong the "fantasy" from the movie.

    Drz, it's cool that we have a difference of opinion, don't sweat it
    Last edited by Xistel; 12-09-2012 at 08:01 AM.
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  4. #199
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    If someone was introduced to Spider-Man by movies or television is your 1st instict to:

    A) Introduce to a hobby that costs 3.99$-More per month, with varied chances of hit or miss
    B) Introduce to a collecting Hobby of softcovers/hardcovers/library/digital-sales and recommend the best of the best

    Then you can also add tv series and games, because who really wants to encourage the way Marvel treats it's consumers lol? It's like this whole Ultimate Peter Parker thing, you miss him? Re-read the comics.
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  5. #200
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    If someone was introduced to Spider-Man by movies or television is your 1st instict to:

    A) Introduce to a hobby that costs 3.99$-More per month, with varied chances of hit or miss
    B) Introduce to a collecting Hobby of softcovers/hardcovers/library/digital-sales and recommend the best of the best

    Then you can also add tv series and games, because who really wants to encourage the way Marvel treats it's consumers lol? It's like this whole Ultimate Peter Parker thing, you miss him? Re-read the comics.
    I'm not even gonna argue anymore, you are just twisting examples no matter what. You know as well as anyone that re-reading comics is not what we would like. We would want new stories, to follow this character we all enjoyed. Your argument is ridiculous.

    But that's it, instead of discussing, you are only attacking and I have no patience for that.
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  6. #201
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    I'm just pointing out the flaws of your argument to the point you have no good argument to reason why Peter Parker should be brought back outside of fan-service of the pre-existing Ultimate Peter Parker fans, which doesn't quarentee any profits for Marvel. I don't know, alot of people like to say Miles Morales isn't as good as the good ol' days, Plawsky's reviews are really great and he puts alot of thought to them and compares them at times, but would this mean all writing magically gets better if it's an X instead of an Y? It's like arguing how it's easy writing Batman or Spider-Man, well why do so many shit stories exist then?
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  7. #202
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    I think you misread what I wrote. I was stating that it was bad for business not to have a version of Peter Parker in comics at any given time. not that it had to be ultimate Peter. Only that it made more sense because 616 Peter was going away now. I don't doubt that Miles stories are good.

    It's obvious to everyone that Ultimate Peter is my favorite out of the two and yes I want him back. But I don't want Miles to dissapear.

    A user posted a while back that Ultimate Spider-man was losing numbers, so that also helps to make sense out of the idea that Peter Parker would come back now.

    While I understand you don't agree with my movie/media logic, from my point of view, the fact that the new movie franchise is focused on Peter in highschool and very influenced by Ultimate Spider-man, it also makes sense to bring this back. (This is only valid from my train of thought, of course).

    Again, if Peter does come back (which I'm hopeful for, but not sure of it), I do hope Miles stays relevant. But if it does happen, I would bet it'd happen in 2014
    Last edited by Xistel; 12-09-2012 at 09:33 AM.
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  8. #203
    Senior Member Chris S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    Again, if Peter does come back (which I'm hopeful for, but not sure of it), I do hope Miles stays relevant. But if it does happen, I would bet it'd happen in 2014
    I think Marvel has pretty much given Bendis free range on the book. He is allowed to do as he pleases.

    One thing that gets me: does anyone remember when Bendis would say he has years of stories in mind of Peter? What happened to those stories?

    One thing that also gets me about the dropping sales is the Bendis factor. Usually his name alone on a book garners in more sales. That is partly why I see this book being in trouble. If Marvel could put him on a book that would instantly sell 60,000 why wouldn't they?
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  9. #204
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    I think you misread what I wrote. I was stating that it was bad for business not to have a version of Peter Parker in comics at any given time. not that it had to be ultimate Peter. Only that it made more sense because 616 Peter was going away now. I don't doubt that Miles stories are good.
    No, he isn't.

    But let's say he was and Marvel Now's relaunch of Superior Spider-Man starring "not Parker" is a critical and commercial success, the maximus opus of Dan Slott's run, what does that say? It says people are more interested in good stories than whos leading the title, because like shown the movie audience isn't some sales juggernaut.

    A user posted a while back that Ultimate Spider-man was losing numbers, so that also helps to make sense out of the idea that Peter Parker would come back now.
    The whole Ultimate brand has suffered & Marvel is focusing on MARVEL NOW + Age of Ultron, you really think trying to promote and replace the titular character is going to help? Granted, Marvel throwing everything at once, getting so many free issues to the comic stores did help both AvX and the relaunches for their 1st issues, but again your argument is that this will somehow increase the sales so high they will keep going strong? Despite Marvel as a whole just going down and down?

    While I understand you don't agree with my movie/media logic, from my point of view, the fact that the new movie franchise is focused on Peter in highschool and very influenced by Ultimate Spider-man, it also makes sense to bring this back. (This is only valid from my train of thought, of course).
    But why is it valid? Why wouldn't releasing collections of stories, games and a television show (Ultimate Spider-Man) more commercial success than hoping to bargain into a 3.99$ comic hobby? Ultimate Spider-Man tv series is Disney's way of showing the wide corners of Marvel Universe so they can release toys, clothing and other mechandise, not to mention the TV show itself is a blatant commercial for toys and they aren't even trying to hide it.

    You keep reassuring the movie audience is some gate way to comics, why?
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  10. #205
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    I think the movies are a gateway for comics, because it is, for a lot of people, a first real contact with the character and the myth. A lot of people probably want to continue the story, and comics is a go-to place.

    I do agree that the price-point is crazy and certainly runs people away.

    Of course good stories are very important. But it's also about the connection you have with the characters. That was the reason I didn't continue reading Ultimate Spider-Man after Peters death, even though the stories were good. If its just about the quality of the stories, Daredevil should the the top selling book for a while now. It's been continuously praised.

    But I do think we are getting off topic here. So let's leave it at this. I want Ultimate Peter back. You don't :P

    P.S. I don't mean to say this discussion isn't interesting (it is) but we are derailing the topic. It's something we could continue to discuss on another topic
    Last edited by Xistel; 12-09-2012 at 11:55 AM.
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  11. #206
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    For what it's worth the whole reason I started reading comics was because of a movie. X2 would be the movie.
    1) Find a bad guy
    2) Be Wolverine
    Bring Back Ultimate Wolverine...again!

  12. #207
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    For what it's worth the whole reason I started reading comics was because of a movie. X2 would be the movie.
    10 years ago, years before comic sales increased, Marvel being full of event after event, not to mention those USA Today announcements which has lasted for a few years now lol. <__> See this is why the business model is bad to have you, a pre-existing comic consumer having to pay more (for less) because they aren't trying to gain new audience.
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  13. #208
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    10 years ago, years before comic sales increased, Marvel being full of event after event, not to mention those USA Today announcements which has lasted for a few years now lol. <__> See this is why the business model is bad to have you, a pre-existing comic consumer having to pay more (for less) because they aren't trying to gain new audience.
    I have to agree with you. Marvel should be doing a LOT more to bring in new readers
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  14. #209
    Senior Member Chris S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    I have to agree with you. Marvel should be doing a LOT more to bring in new readers
    Just out of curisoty, what types of things would you have them do? People in general do not read and I don't think a company like Marvel can fix that.
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  15. #210
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. View Post
    Just out of curisoty, what types of things would you have them do? People in general do not read and I don't think a company like Marvel can fix that.
    Well, off the of of my head. We need to understand a few social aspects. People have the preconception that Comics are for kids / nerds. That simply isn't true in today's comic book world. They should try to change that mentality. maybe have some campaigns that try to push the issue.

    Give out a comic book to everyone who buys a ticket for a marvel movie, maybe a point one issue, or a special one made for the moviegoers. (well, in select theaters and cities).

    Lower prices, especially for digital comics (also, have all the latest point one issues free digitally).

    Have special sales on classic arcs to get people interested.

    Maybe have a campaign with the film stars promoting comic book.

    Digitally there are a lot of things they can do, because they dont have printing and distribution. Make special sales online. Free comic book on Spider-Man month. Maybe season one and another comic.

    Bundles! Buy one get the next one free or half price, what ever.

    For every comic book bought, you win points that can be saved up to buy comics or other stuff related

    Basically I feel the industries approach is "you can read comics if you come to us, but we aren't going to try and lure you in"

    Get a handsome spokesperson to hit the tv shows (the view, late night shows, etc)
    Last edited by Xistel; 12-09-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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