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  1. #181
    "Eh, What's up Doc?" Spider-Frog's Avatar
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    Actually, I'm thinking that Marvel already has Ult Peter's return planned out, Just in case SUPERIOR tanks. Can't have all the Petofiles running off to some other comic company NOW, Right?
    Last edited by Spider-Frog; 12-08-2012 at 06:50 AM. Reason: *Snicker*

  2. #182
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Frog View Post
    Actually, I'm thinking that Marvel already has Ult Peter's return planned out, Just in case SUPERIOR tanks. Can't have all the Petofiles running off to some other comic company NOW, Right?
    I see what you did there lol.
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  3. #183
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    I actually think Ult Peter is coming back. I doubt marvel will risk not having Peter as Spider-Man in at least one book for long. Especially with the movies and TV shows and such. And since Marvel sounds pretty serious about the change in the 616 world (I doubt they would cause all this ruckus for a 4 month change), I'm betting on Ult. Peters return.

    I doesn't mean Miles has to die of drop off. There is space in the Ultimate Universe for him. The only things that bother me about Miles is his age (13 is way too young) and the fact that he is Spider-Man.
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  4. #184
    True Superior Spider-Man Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sage6paths View Post
    I'm so glad Dan Slott is doing that. Now the fans will be too focused on trying to get 616 Peter back and forget about trying to get Ult Peter back. Then Miles will reign for another successful year. Thank you Dan Slott for indirectly giving more focus on Miles.
    But then the people who kept saying 'if you want to read about Peter Parker, read Amazing Spider-Man' lose their main ammo because let's face it, chances are not many people are gonna get so desperate for Peter that they'd go to Marvel Universe: Ultimate Spider-Man. It's possible that those on the forum who want Peter back in the UU may become even more vocal having lost the only alternate they had.
    Holding out for a Peter/Miles team up.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    I actually think Ult Peter is coming back. I doubt marvel will risk not having Peter as Spider-Man in at least one book for long. Especially with the movies and TV shows and such. And since Marvel sounds pretty serious about the change in the 616 world (I doubt they would cause all this ruckus for a 4 month change), I'm betting on Ult. Peters return.

    I doesn't mean Miles has to die of drop off. There is space in the Ultimate Universe for him. The only things that bother me about Miles is his age (13 is way too young) and the fact that he is Spider-Man.
    Lol I'm going to feed on your disappointment and tears for years to come. If Peter is coming back it won't be for years if ever. Just look at the House of M and the "no more mutants line". That mandate wasn't rectified until just this past couple of months. That was 7 years for it to change back. Look at the New 52. They won't be changing back anytime soon. Look at All-new X-men. In fact Miles Morales probably effected the decision of All-new X-men. They said look at how successful he is so let's do it with the 616. Hence the "All-New" title in both books. So no Peter won't be coming back and if he is it won't be for a long time and by then Miles will have an already bigger fanbase then Ult Peter and Marvel will just decide whether it's worth it or not to bring Peter back after all those years. Things will change. Maybe Aunt May or Mary Jane dies. He won't be in high school anymore. Everyone knows his identity. There not going to bring Ult Peter back. And anyone holding out hope is just going to stop caring after many years and we can finally get those annoying Miles bashers to stop arguing.

  6. #186
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sage6paths View Post
    Lol I'm going to feed on your disappointment and tears for years to come. If Peter is coming back it won't be for years if ever. Just look at the House of M and the "no more mutants line". That mandate wasn't rectified until just this past couple of months. That was 7 years for it to change back. Look at the New 52. They won't be changing back anytime soon. Look at All-new X-men. In fact Miles Morales probably effected the decision of All-new X-men. They said look at how successful he is so let's do it with the 616. Hence the "All-New" title in both books. So no Peter won't be coming back and if he is it won't be for a long time and by then Miles will have an already bigger fanbase then Ult Peter and Marvel will just decide whether it's worth it or not to bring Peter back after all those years. Things will change. Maybe Aunt May or Mary Jane dies. He won't be in high school anymore. Everyone knows his identity. There not going to bring Ult Peter back. And anyone holding out hope is just going to stop caring after many years and we can finally get those annoying Miles bashers to stop arguing.
    I see your point (though it could have been written with less of an aggressive stance) but it's one thing to do the "no more mutants" and still keep the core guys than to remove Peter Parker from the equation. The closest argument would be what DC did with Hal Jordan and even then, he never had the kind of importance Peter Parker has.

    And I agree with what a poster said earlier. When Ult Peter was killed we had an alternative (which I took) that was to read 616 Peter. Now we will stop having it.

    I don't think there are a lot of Miles bashers. rather, there are a lot of Peter Parker supporters.

    It's like with any big single hero franchise. Bruce Wayne IS Batman, Clark Kent IS Superman, Steve Rodgers IS Captain America and so on. While they may be replaced for a while, they always come back. Especially with the added pressure of the movies and TV Shows.

    You make it sound like I wrote that Miles should just die. I think he is an interesting character and he should stay within this universe.
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  7. #187
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    It's like with any big single hero franchise. Bruce Wayne IS Batman, Clark Kent IS Superman, Steve Rodgers IS Captain America and so on. While they may be replaced for a while, they always come back.
    This doesn't apply to Ultimate Peter Parker since he ultimately is simply an alternate take on the character. You aren't seeing the Ultimate line part of Marvel's big relaunch, while they could easily put "Ultimate Spider-Man is MARVEL NOW!" brand easily.
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  8. #188
    Senior Member Chris S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnid View Post
    I agree with the OP. I gave Miles a chance, but he's boring. He's not half as interesting as Pete was, so I'm ready for him to disappear and Pete to reclaim the throne.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heroid View Post
    Also, I don't see how it is automatically "bad writing" to bring a character back from the dead. Kevin Smith did it in Green Arrow to much fan and critical acclaim. Plus, the foreshadowing of a retcon of Peter's death has already been established with the Zodiac Key -- an important plot point from "Death of Spider-Man" which hasn't been seen since. Any writer worth his salt could bring Peter back in one issue with that *already established* plot device. Peter's resurrection has been set up way way better than his replacement, Miles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Genixx View Post
    my biggest complaint is that they had to make Miles so young. personally, i dont want to read stories about some per-pubesent kid. but, ive been giving it a chance. ive been reading the miles story since #1...and i havent seen to much to really keep me reading it. seems like the last several issues he has been getting yelled about by cap that he is to young. nothing has really happened to start get him to be a 'hero'. so far he has been shadowing cap and going "wow, look at that." with Venom coming back it might pick up some..but, if i dont start seeing something to keep my interest..i might drop the series. i know the writers are working hard at trying to make it a good series..totally respect that.. im just not feeling it.
    I'm so glad to see I'm not alone. For the first few pages of this thread it seemed like no one wanted Pete back. Miles just hasn't made me interested in the slightest. It was like Bendis thought if he made him black he didn't have to do anything else to make him interesting. Miles has been boring and I've found nothing appealing about him.

    And like the last poster, for the first time since its inception I feel like it is time to drop this book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggie_Stardust View Post
    I'd rather see Miles grow up and grow into the role of Spider-Man, the same way (well, not exactly the same way) as Peter in 616. Rather than see Ultimate Peter come back and displace Miles.
    You want to see Miles grow up? You realize that Bendis wrote 100+ issues of Peter and I don't think he aged at all. How long would it take for Miles to grow up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    You might be talking about general trends, but that doesn't make you right. Comic sales are going up overall, both single issues and trade paperbacks. And you can't use people you've talked to as an example of a universal truth. Based on the people I talked to in Texas, Mitt Romney should have won the election by an overwhelming margin. But that's a small sample compared to the overall whole. Anecdotal evidence means nothing.

    Sales are up, that's a fact. They might not be up by a large margin, but the pattern of steadily decreasing sales over the past decade has ended. The New 52 worked. AvX worked. Marvel NOW is working. Sure, they use gimmicks to help them out, but that has been the case for decades. The highest selling comic of all time is X-Men #1 from 1991, and it did so because it was a shiny new #1 by the biggest writer in the industry and had several variants. These trends you're bashing are nothing new.

    Like I said, there are plenty of great, fun, and even kid friendly comics out there. If you don't see them, then you're not looking or asking.
    Well said. Comic sales are the best they've been in years, and that is with a recession still going on. I also read a ton of "Fun" comics every month.
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  9. #189
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    This doesn't apply to Ultimate Peter Parker since he ultimately is simply an alternate take on the character. You aren't seeing the Ultimate line part of Marvel's big relaunch, while they could easily put "Ultimate Spider-Man is MARVEL NOW!" brand easily.
    Yeah, you are right. I wasn't looking at it as an alternative universe. Although it would have been easier if Spider-Man hadn't been Peter Parker from the beginning. The greater point I was trying to make (and got lost) was that I don't think it's very good business policy for Marvel not to have a place where fans (and new fans) can get there hands on some Peter Parker magic. and again, especially with all the movies and TV Shows focusing on Peter.

    Although I would like to have Ultimate Peter back, I am, with this post, questioning the fact i just mentioned above.
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  10. #190
    Senior Member Chris S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    Clearly you're not reading very many comics if this is what you think "all comics" are doing. Ultimate Spider-man is not a dark or edgy comic. It's had 2 major deaths over 200+ issues - Gwen and Peter. And Gwen's back. The tone of the title is exactly what it was 10 years ago, just with a new character. There are plenty of other books out there that are fun or, at the very least, not "a tedium in endless sorrow and misery" - Fantastic Four/FF, Wolverine and the X-Men, Manhattan Projects, Invincible, Avengers and New Avengers, Avenging Spider-man... the list goes on and on. Sure, there are dark comics out there too, but that's hardly anything new. Ever since Watchmen, there have been loads of popular dark or "edgy" comics.

    I know you like to pop in every once in a while and criticize the comic industry, but you're completely wrong about sales. They're at the highest they have been in years. You're specifically criticizing the choice to kill Peter, saying it was a "horrible idea that no one liked" that will cause the book to lose all its fans. Well have you actually checked the sales on the title?

    Oct 2007 - 74,232
    Oct 2008 - 52,577
    Oct 2009 - 52,781
    Oct 2010 - 34,657
    Oct 2011 - 52,521
    Oct 2012 - 39,676

    The post-Ultimatum and post-Death of Spider-man relaunch issues landed at almost the exact same number, showing that each relaunch was equally effective for Ultimate Spider-man. A year after the relaunch, the current volume is 5,000 (14.5%) copies higher. If everyone is jumping ship due to Death of Spider-man, how do you explain that? And how do you explain the drop of 18,000 copies between 10/07 and 10/08? That was before Ultimatum and long before Death of Spider-man.

    Yes, sales have dropped on the title. No one is denying that. But there is absolutely no correlation between dropped sales and any one event. If anything, the sales drops point more toward Marvel's shift in focus from the Ultimate line to the Avengers franchise.

    Until you actually show that you've looked at the sales data, it's clear that you're just making things up to fit your argument.
    While I agree with the post I quoted above, I do think there is a correlation between Miles steering the ship and the current numbers on the title. I would wager the title is going to continue to dump readers.

    Personally, I think this book is in trouble.
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  11. #191
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. View Post
    While I agree with the post I quoted above, I do think there is a correlation between Miles steering the ship and the current numbers on the title. I would wager the title is going to continue to dump readers.

    Personally, I think this book is in trouble.
    I agree with you. Just from the stand point of a new reader, If I want to read about spider-man, at face value, I am much more interested in reading about Peter Parker than a new character. Combine this with the fact that a lot of people were sad and quite ultimate spider-man, it's only natural that the momentum would be downward. And while some people may have gotten into USM after the death of Peter, and many may have continued to read it, it's only natural that they are in smaller number. This from a sociological point of view.

    I have not read Miles stories, but I heard they were good, so the fact isn't really that numbers dropped because of story quality.

    P.S - I'm not a professional analyst (fooled you for a second ahah) and I'm only going off my logic and the numbers presented on this forum, so what do I know really? it's just my reading of the situation
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  12. #192
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    Yeah, you are right. I wasn't looking at it as an alternative universe. Although it would have been easier if Spider-Man hadn't been Peter Parker from the beginning. The greater point I was trying to make (and got lost) was that I don't think it's very good business policy for Marvel not to have a place where fans (and new fans) can get there hands on some Peter Parker magic. and again, especially with all the movies and TV Shows focusing on Peter.
    Can you point me how have the movies and tv shows effected the sales of comics, outside of Marvel themselves allowing more comic shops to get more free copies, hence the higher diamondlist orders?

    EDIT: And to be clear, we're talking very lasting sales increases, like the Thor relaunch and Bru's Captain America relaunch in 2011. Captain America went downhill with the relaunch and the sales just dropped to what they we're with the writing becoming rather disappointing after so many years of good Cap writing, then you got Matt Franction's Thor relaunch which just plummeted after the 1st few issues to worse state then they we're. Back when The Dark Knight launched, what did DC do? Batman Reborn relaunch starring Batman & Robin with a brand new dynamic duo, and releasing Azzarello's Joker OGN to cash-in with TDK, huge successes both of them.

    People keep using these movies and tv shows as arguments, but theres nothing that says the comics gained new audience whatsoever, so yeah, who gives a fuck? If anything, the OGN marketing seems a far suitable place with both Vertigo's Girl with the Dragon Tattoo & DC's Earth One line being huge success, Digital will become even bigger once they stop charging 2.99$-3.99$ per issue.
    Last edited by Drz; 12-09-2012 at 03:48 AM.
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  13. #193
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    Can you point me how have the movies and tv shows effected the sales of comics, outside of Marvel themselves allowing more comic shops to get more free copies, hence the higher diamondlist orders?

    EDIT: And to be clear, we're talking very lasting sales increases, like the Thor relaunch and Bru's Captain America relaunch in 2011. Captain America went downhill with the relaunch and the sales just dropped to what they we're with the writing becoming rather disappointing after so many years of good Cap writing, then you got Matt Franction's Thor relaunch which just plummeted after the 1st few issues to worse state then they we're. Back when The Dark Knight launched, what did DC do? Batman Reborn relaunch starring Batman & Robin with a brand new dynamic duo, and releasing Azzarello's Joker OGN to cash-in with TDK, huge successes both of them.

    People keep using these movies and tv shows as arguments, but theres nothing that says the comics gained new audience whatsoever, so yeah, who gives a fuck? If anything, the OGN marketing seems a far suitable place with both Vertigo's Girl with the Dragon Tattoo & DC's Earth One line being huge success, Digital will become even bigger once they stop charging 2.99$-3.99$ per issue.
    I can't really point out a specific number or stat, but it is something I've heard Marvel talk about. I mean, why would they bring in black nick fury, or agent coulsen? I think it's only natural that comic sales, or at least comic interest goes up with the movies.
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  14. #194
    Senior Member Chris S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    Can you point me how have the movies and tv shows effected the sales of comics, outside of Marvel themselves allowing more comic shops to get more free copies, hence the higher diamondlist orders?

    EDIT: And to be clear, we're talking very lasting sales increases, like the Thor relaunch and Bru's Captain America relaunch in 2011. Captain America went downhill with the relaunch and the sales just dropped to what they we're with the writing becoming rather disappointing after so many years of good Cap writing, then you got Matt Franction's Thor relaunch which just plummeted after the 1st few issues to worse state then they we're. Back when The Dark Knight launched, what did DC do? Batman Reborn relaunch starring Batman & Robin with a brand new dynamic duo, and releasing Azzarello's Joker OGN to cash-in with TDK, huge successes both of them.

    People keep using these movies and tv shows as arguments, but theres nothing that says the comics gained new audience whatsoever, so yeah, who gives a fuck? If anything, the OGN marketing seems a far suitable place with both Vertigo's Girl with the Dragon Tattoo & DC's Earth One line being huge success, Digital will become even bigger once they stop charging 2.99$-3.99$ per issue.
    While I don't think there is an exact correlation, sales in the medium are up across the board. I'd wager that solid movies have created some interest in the medium.
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  15. #195
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    I can't really point out a specific number or stat, but it is something I've heard Marvel talk about. I mean, why would they bring in black nick fury, or agent coulsen? I think it's only natural that comic sales, or at least comic interest goes up with the movies.
    Having a sales pike for a few months is not a long term victory by any means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. View Post
    While I don't think there is an exact correlation, sales in the medium are up across the board. I'd wager that solid movies have created some interest in the medium.
    The counter argument here is that once the sales have plummeted so low, they can only rise up. It's like bragging about how Nokia in stock market has now gotten to 2%, while 10 years ago they we're da bomb, but now it's all about Samsung & Apple. We can celebrate that the comic indrustry has gained wins, but is it as big victory as it is?
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