I'm ready for Peter to come back? Who's with me...

[Plawsky]

I'm talking about general trends when I say sales are lower. All around, every company. And every person I have met, and myself included, all point to the same thing (and same with wrestling too). Comics just aren't fun any more. It seems like every single issue is super depressing, with someone raped here and then someone dies here, and you need to buy 20 issues just to get one plot finished. I would not let my theoretical children have them. And any comic that is lighthearted, such as Blue Beetle, gets ripped to shreds, cancelled, etc.

You might be talking about general trends, but that doesn't make you right. Comic sales are going up overall, both single issues and trade paperbacks. And you can't use people you've talked to as an example of a universal truth. Based on the people I talked to in Texas, Mitt Romney should have won the election by an overwhelming margin. But that's a small sample compared to the overall whole. Anecdotal evidence means nothing.

Sales are up, that's a fact. They might not be up by a large margin, but the pattern of steadily decreasing sales over the past decade has ended. The New 52 worked. AvX worked. Marvel NOW is working. Sure, they use gimmicks to help them out, but that has been the case for decades. The highest selling comic of all time is X-Men #1 from 1991, and it did so because it was a shiny new #1 by the biggest writer in the industry and had several variants. These trends you're bashing are nothing new.

Like I said, there are plenty of great, fun, and even kid friendly comics out there. If you don't see them, then you're not looking or asking.

[pinq09]

A villain tries to use (insert insane/funny/amazing device) on (insert thing we need to save). Hero comes in, saves the day, and the villain escapes. Comics should be triumphant, not a tedium in endless sorrow and misery.

If all comics were like that, I would never have bothered with getting into them in the first place. I`m not saying I agree with all the trends in current comics, but return to the 70s is not the answer. And comics stopped being written mainly for kids a long time ago. Thank god for that.

[Kurolegacy]

We have Peter in Amazing Spider-man, Avenging Spider-man, New Avengers, Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-man, etc. Miles is doing great, and the book has maintained a consistent level of quality. I'd like to see what happens with Miles. Peter Parker is my favorite superhero ever, but there's other places where I can read about him. I like the variety that the current Ultimate Universe is giving us.

Actually we're about to lose Peter in Amazing and Avenging to the "Superior" Spider-Man and to keep up with status quo, Avengers will probably soon follow. It's kinda insulting to fans of Peter that the only place there will be to read him is a place where he's nothing like Peter Parker to the point of practically being a parody of himself in Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-man.

He doesn't have to return as Spider-Man but I'd love to see him return, reacting to just how things have changed since he died.

[atlasjj]

Actually we're about to lose Peter in Amazing and Avenging to the "Superior" Spider-Man and to keep up with status quo, Avengers will probably soon follow. It's kinda insulting to fans of Peter that the only place there will be to read him is a place where he's nothing like Peter Parker to the point of practically being a parody of himself in Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-man.

He doesn't have to return as Spider-Man but I'd love to see him return, reacting to just how things have changed since he died.

Peter could still be alive post Amazing Spider-Man 700 we won't know until December 26th. But that is another thing in itself.

With Ultimate Peter again I say give it more time before Peter returns if he does in fact return. Like I said maybe when Ultimate Comics Spider-Man hits like issue 40 which would be the series 200th issue. (If you include Peter's run as Spider-Man). Or at least wait until issue 50, 75 or 100 of the current volume of Spider-Man. That way Miles has more time to grow, and the Ultimate U. has truly moved on. That way when he returns the world is really a vastly different place and people won't be like "Didn't you just die?". But anyway, having him come back in the next 2 years or less is still too soon.

[Kurolegacy]

Peter could still be alive post Amazing Spider-Man 700 we won't know until December 26th. But that is another thing in itself.

With Ultimate Peter again I say give it more time before Peter returns if he does in fact return. Like I said maybe when Ultimate Comics Spider-Man hits like issue 40 which would be the series 200th issue. (If you include Peter's run as Spider-Man). Or at least wait until issue 50, 75 or 100 of the current volume of Spider-Man. That way Miles has more time to grow, and the Ultimate U. has truly moved on. That way when he returns the world is really a vastly different place and people won't be like "Didn't you just die?". But anyway, having him come back in the next 2 years or less is still too soon.

Yea I could go with that. It'd be pretty cool if they brought him back as Ultimate Scarlet Spider having a spider based vigilante suddenly showing up helping stop crimes but no one knows who it is. No one knows who it is and have Bendis dropping hints that it could be Peter and others that it couldn't be while not revealing who's behind the mask. Then once we finally get to see his face, we find that it is Peter having dyed his hair and changed his name to Ben Reilly to go unnoticed knowing he had to change himself in a world that's changed so much and to do that, the world had to continue to believe that Peter Parker is dead.

[Dkrook]

Yea I could go with that. It'd be pretty cool if they brought him back as Ultimate Scarlet Spider having a spider based vigilante suddenly showing up helping stop crimes but no one knows who it is. No one knows who it is and have Bendis dropping hints that it could be Peter and others that it couldn't be while not revealing who's behind the mask. Then once we finally get to see his face, we find that it is Peter having dyed his hair and changed his name to Ben Reilly to go unnoticed knowing he had to change himself in a world that's changed so much and to do that, the world had to continue to believe that Peter Parker is dead.

Maybe i missed something, but what proposing is having a fan fav come back as someone completely unrecognizable for sake of just seeing an old character...? kind of defeats the purpose doesnt it?

[tesh_karde]

I would like to see Peter return as well, but I'm doubtful that it will happen.

Also, I don't Peter's death meant something. I believe Bendis said they killed Peter because they knew no one would buy someone else as Spider-Man if Pete was still around. I just can't get down on a character who wouldn't succeed without my favorite character dying.

But tons of people like Miles, and I wouldn't want him taken away from them either.

[Spider-Frog]

Maybe i missed something, but what proposing is having a fan fav come back as someone completely unrecognizable for sake of just seeing an old character...? kind of defeats the purpose doesnt it?

You're kidding right?

Two things you can't fake; Spidey's trash talk and Spidey's moves. I don't care if he's dressed up as Twinkie the Kid; Spidey Fans will know who it is. Yeah, there would be a lot of debate over whether it was Peter or another clone with Peter's Memory, But hey, that's all part of the fun.

[Trallis]

I'm ready for the following people to come back:
My grandmother
My great grandmother
My grandfather
My Aunt
My friend who was killed by a roadside IED in Iraq

Who's with me?

[refrax5]

No. No. NO! This is WHY we get in the messes we get into in the first place. "Oh hey this horrible idea that no one liked, keep it. I'd rather have sales go down in flames and lose all our fans before we ever admit we were wrong."

You people want to know why comic sales are dying? It's because comics are too damn depressing. Tune in today and watch 20 X Men die. Next week, watch 40 of them die. Make Peter sell his marriage to the devil. Hey you know that new character we just made? Kill him/her in a Battle Royal story because we need to be "edgy." I wouldn't give a comic book to a child in this day and age. There is nothing kid friendly about them. The ONLY thing comics these days are capable of doing seem to be is to do something that makes even MORE people quit the book. You aren't getting new readers. So instead, how about we try to get the old readers back?

How about we have comic books actually be fun again? It's simple. One issue: A villain tries to use (insert insane/funny/amazing device) on (insert thing we need to save). Hero comes in, saves the day, and the villain escapes. Comics should be triumphant, not a tedium in endless sorrow and misery. Not every issue should be a wham issue. Could you imagine if EVERY cartoon out there was a hentai? People would be pretty damn sick of seeing tentacles and no one would their kids watch any. Well....that's basically what happened to the comic industry.

Also, the problem with the industry are the creators of the comics going, "I'm in the industry so I decide what people want." And then when sales don't go their way, they blame the fans for not being "good enough" fans. The writers/editors need to cash their egos at the door. This is not manga where you are allowed to have only 12 issues and the entire series is over, you are writing stories designed to last 100 years. You can't do that by purposely getting rid of every character people like and failing to make better new ones.

And DC has this issue too. They flat out removed a poll because they didn't get the results they liked. The general thought I get when I think of a comic book writer these days is, "I decide what you want, and if you don't want that, you are wrong. I know what you want."

Comic book sales are actually improving. As for comics being too depressing, most of Miles' run in USM has been pretty fun and lighthearted. Besides, it's not like there wasn't plenty of death in Peter's time as Spider-Man, in both the 616 and the Ultimate Universe. Hell, one of Spider-Man's most famous stories featured the death of a main character. There's a whole hell of a lot of reasons comics don't sell like they used to and being too depressing isn't one of them. Hell, darker stories are what's popular these days. How much money did those somber, death-and-destruction filled Batman movies make?

And regardless of some fans, that doesn't mean it's a terrible idea that no one liked. Honestly, I felt like Peter's series had gotten stale and at the moment, I'm much more interested in seeing what happens with Miles. I'm not saying they can NEVER bring Peter back. But, yes, it'd be very bad writing to bring him back so soon. At some point, if there's a decent story and a reason to bring him back beyond fans complaining.

The Ultimate universe has generally been shown to be a much harsher place than the 616 where bad things happen and not everyone survives. Honestly, that's one of the reasons I like it. You genuinely worry about the characters. Things change, permanently. Whereas in the 616, the death stories are jokes because you know the character will be back eventually.

In the 616 universe, Peter Parker will always be Spider-Man and that's how it should be. And I don't care whether Ben Reilly returns or Superior Spider-Man features a new guy or anything----Peter will be back as Spider-Man. The 616 is a place for the classic, iconic characters to continue on. And I love it for that.

But the Ultimate U is an alternate universe where they can do things the 616 can't do. If they take that away, there becomes less and less sense to their even being an Ultimate U.

[Kurolegacy]

Maybe i missed something, but what proposing is having a fan fav come back as someone completely unrecognizable for sake of just seeing an old character...? kind of defeats the purpose doesnt it?

Part of the kind of fun in that kind of plot comes from the mystery of just who the person is behind the mask. Just look at the speculations that we had of who was the new Ultimate Spider-Man before Miles was revealed or even the speculation going on of just who Superior Spider-Man is. Plus the kind of payoff from when the identity is revealed.

[Trallis]

No. No. NO! This is WHY we get in the messes we get into in the first place. "Oh hey this horrible idea that no one liked, keep it. I'd rather have sales go down in flames and lose all our fans before we ever admit we were wrong."

You people want to know why comic sales are dying? It's because comics are too damn depressing. Tune in today and watch 20 X Men die. Next week, watch 40 of them die. Make Peter sell his marriage to the devil. Hey you know that new character we just made? Kill him/her in a Battle Royal story because we need to be "edgy." I wouldn't give a comic book to a child in this day and age. There is nothing kid friendly about them. The ONLY thing comics these days are capable of doing seem to be is to do something that makes even MORE people quit the book. You aren't getting new readers. So instead, how about we try to get the old readers back?

How about we have comic books actually be fun again? It's simple. One issue: A villain tries to use (insert insane/funny/amazing device) on (insert thing we need to save). Hero comes in, saves the day, and the villain escapes. Comics should be triumphant, not a tedium in endless sorrow and misery. Not every issue should be a wham issue. Could you imagine if EVERY cartoon out there was a hentai? People would be pretty damn sick of seeing tentacles and no one would their kids watch any. Well....that's basically what happened to the comic industry.

Also, the problem with the industry are the creators of the comics going, "I'm in the industry so I decide what people want." And then when sales don't go their way, they blame the fans for not being "good enough" fans. The writers/editors need to cash their egos at the door. This is not manga where you are allowed to have only 12 issues and the entire series is over, you are writing stories designed to last 100 years. You can't do that by purposely getting rid of every character people like and failing to make better new ones.

And DC has this issue too. They flat out removed a poll because they didn't get the results they liked. The general thought I get when I think of a comic book writer these days is, "I decide what you want, and if you don't want that, you are wrong. I know what you want."

So much is wrong with this post. Okay, you're entitled to your opinion that undoing events in comics because they are unpopular with fans is acceptable. I disagree, but that's not the problem I have with your post.
First problem: "Tune in today and watch 20 X-Men die. Next week, watch 40 of them die."
I challenge you to name 20 x-men who have died. Not 20 x-men who died in Ultimatum. 20 x-men who have died since the name x-men was first given to Charles Xavier's team of mutants in the 1960s. It's possible that 20 characters have died in the entire Marvel Universe.. but 20 X-Men in one day? No.. and i'm challenging you to name 20 x-men who have died since the 60s.

That's why the Ultimate Universe is so much more realistic. Yeah it's a world of fantasy where impossible things are possible, but that shouldn't mean that all good characters are invincible. In a world where good and evil people with god like powers wage constant war on each other all over the world, there are gonna be some unfortunate deaths. As soon as fans decide that deaths of likable characters are unacceptable, or can be reversed, the stories lose all credibility. Who cares if Peter Parker is going up against his entire rogues gallery with a bullet wound on his side if he can't die? Did you care when the chameleons had JJJ and Peter tied to chairs in the warehouse? I did, but I definitely wouldn't have cared if that hadn't been the Ultimate universe, because I would have known neither of them were gonna die. When JJ got shot, I thought he was really dead because it's the UU. The incident wouldn't have rattled me at all if it hadn't been the UU.

Ok so you can't name 20 x-men who have died. I'm wondering if you can name 20 characters who have died without mentioning an Ultimate character. They can be mutants, non-mutants, villains, civilians.. name 20 people who have died in Marvel comics without mentioning the Ultimate U. It may be possible, but it's not gonna be easy. If you can do that, you still haven't proven your point, because you claimed it was possible for 20 x-men to die in one day.. and then on another day, 40 more x-men. So I'm letting you get away with just naming 20 people of any kind.. as opposed to the 60 x-men you claim died at some point in a matter of 2 weeks. The most deaths that ever happened in a single event was Ultimatum and I think it was less than 40, and far fewer than 20 of them were x-men.

So comics are depressing because characters are dying all the time? I think you're very wrong about that. Comic sales are dying because creators refuse to undo events that readers didn't like? Look man, Peter Parker's death was obviously not going to be a happy event. Refrax5 stated that bringing Peter back would be bad writing, and you said no. Can you explain this? Cheap crap like bringing someone back from the dead to please whining fans is definitely bad writing. Another example of bad writing is writing a character death that DOESN't bother people. All of this complaining from fans about Peter dying is probably the best compliment that's ever been paid to Bendis' writing. If you can make people care about the death of a completely fictional character then you've done a great job. If people are still whining about it over a year later.. wow.

And I agree with you, comics should be fun, but if all the characters we like are unkillable, I think the fun is gone. There has to be some danger. These guys are supposed to be super heroes. They laugh at danger. They risk their lives every time they put on the mask and go out there to protect the innocent. Peter died an amazingly heroic death.. why can't you just let it be? If any character ever deserved to have such an epic death it's Spider-Man. He's a character that we all know so well that he feels like a real person in our lives. The gravity of his death in just the Ultimate Universe on the comic book world is an amazing honor to the character. He died and everyone cared. He's not a real person, he's not even the main universe spider-man, and people are still upset over a year later. That's damn good writing and that's a damn good character.

Okay there is more wrong with your post. You say these writers would rather have sales go down and lose all their fans before admitting they were wrong on something. Then you go on to complain that Peter sold his marriage to the devil. But wasn't that an example of writers admitting an idea was bad, and not keeping it because they'd rather not lose all their fans or see sales not go down in flames? They took something back and you want them to take THAT back, and you use that as an example of them refusing to take things back.

Seriously dude.. get your thoughts straight. Writers in the 616 are trying to keep things fresh while writing characters who have already had about 50 years of stories written about them.. and writers in the Ultimate U are trying to provide something new to fans who are tired of the old predictable nature of a Universe where actions rarely have consequences. You don't have to read the UU if you don't like that.. but you have to understand that that's what the UU is for. It's an ongoing story where things change like the real world and characters evolve like real people. I love Peter Parker, and Ultimate Peter Parker was actually cooler to me than the original, but if they brought him back in the UU, the UU would lose all of it's appeal for me because there would be nothing unique about it. It would just be the 616 rebooted. lame

[Spider-Frog]

Interesting, Amongst those of us who wish Peter to return there seems to be a fair number of people who would like to see Peter move on from being Spider-Man. So far, Ult Scarlet Spider seems to be the most popular concept. So, Does anybody have any other ideas for Peter's new Life/Superhero identity?

What do you guys think? Shield Agent/Super Spy? Wandering vigilante without a costume? New Superhero identity?

[Kurolegacy]

SHIELD agent would be cool, but Jessica already took on that status at the end of Ultimate Doomsday (not that we ever see it these days).

[Spider-Frog]

I prefer to see Peter out on the road and away from New York. I figure that SHIELD would set him up with new identity and expect him to work for them; And that Peter would probably go AWOL first chance he got. Of course, I don't think he would leave New York without letting Aunt May,MJ and Gwen know that he is alive. I would want Peter to ask Jessica to look out for his Family/Friends. It would be interesting if Peter introduced Jessica to Aunt May and told her who Jessica is.

I'd like to see Jessica, As a Member of Shield, Going to Empire State University and developing relationships with Peter's supporting cast while keeping an occasional eye out for Miles. I'd like to see Jess tell SHIELD that if they want to keep her; They need to leave Miles alone until he is older. It isn't realistic that Miles could be running around with the Ultimates and going on dangerous Government missions and his Parents never notice.

I'm still trying to come up with some Non-Spider themed superhero identities for Peter.