I'm ready for Peter to come back? Who's with me...

[Heroid]

This is a well said comment, but the market has created a world where we watch for creators. Heck, books have creators names on the covers almost as big as title names these days. I was in my LCS earlier and looking at the Marvel Now titles. I was checking names on the titles before I picked them up.

This is something that the market and companies have helped to create. Heck the whole Marvel Now idea was born out of creators switching titles. I've heard it suggested a few other places, but I wouldn't mind seeing 12 issue volumes on books with a new creator every 12. It is almost what Ultimates has done.

And I trust in everything Bendis outside of the Marvel U. Powers, Scarlet, and even Brilliant have all been decent reads. I will read anything Brubaker/Philips put out. And I absolutely love Rucka. Anything he writes I will buy without question.

I see your issue, but I'm not sure it is something that needs "fixing".

I'm not so much against "big names". What I'm really against is continuity. If you really want to see what Matt Fraction could do with the Fantastic Four, let him write them outside of continuity. Give him the concept and let him do what he will. Just look at All-Star Superman and Grant Morrison's recent run on Action and you'll see what I mean. BUT if you're going to insist on continuity, you have to take the egos of the creators and editors out of the process and write to the established continuity, staying true to what has gone before and not trying to reinvent the characters in your own image. Either will work, but mixing them is definitely not working. Yes, the market is creating this situation, but the market is also shrinking. Better to do something now than wait until print comics are a thing of the past.

Oh, and bring Ultimate Peter Parker back!

[Chris S.]

Oh, and bring Ultimate Peter Parker back!

Here, here!

[VRaptorX]

Not to mention bringing Peter back would just be bad writing. It'd be really cheap and pandering to do so soon. I'm not saying never. I'm just saying that bringing him back would just be really stupid, crappy writing at this point. Like I said, I miss the old Ultimate X-Men. But I at least care about the story having some guts and integrity by leaving them dead. There is no way to undo those stories without it being really stupid.

No. No. NO! This is WHY we get in the messes we get into in the first place. "Oh hey this horrible idea that no one liked, keep it. I'd rather have sales go down in flames and lose all our fans before we ever admit we were wrong."

You people want to know why comic sales are dying? It's because comics are too damn depressing. Tune in today and watch 20 X Men die. Next week, watch 40 of them die. Make Peter sell his marriage to the devil. Hey you know that new character we just made? Kill him/her in a Battle Royal story because we need to be "edgy." I wouldn't give a comic book to a child in this day and age. There is nothing kid friendly about them. The ONLY thing comics these days are capable of doing seem to be is to do something that makes even MORE people quit the book. You aren't getting new readers. So instead, how about we try to get the old readers back?

How about we have comic books actually be fun again? It's simple. One issue: A villain tries to use (insert insane/funny/amazing device) on (insert thing we need to save). Hero comes in, saves the day, and the villain escapes. Comics should be triumphant, not a tedium in endless sorrow and misery. Not every issue should be a wham issue. Could you imagine if EVERY cartoon out there was a hentai? People would be pretty damn sick of seeing tentacles and no one would their kids watch any. Well....that's basically what happened to the comic industry.

Also, the problem with the industry are the creators of the comics going, "I'm in the industry so I decide what people want." And then when sales don't go their way, they blame the fans for not being "good enough" fans. The writers/editors need to cash their egos at the door. This is not manga where you are allowed to have only 12 issues and the entire series is over, you are writing stories designed to last 100 years. You can't do that by purposely getting rid of every character people like and failing to make better new ones.

And DC has this issue too. They flat out removed a poll because they didn't get the results they liked. The general thought I get when I think of a comic book writer these days is, "I decide what you want, and if you don't want that, you are wrong. I know what you want."

[webhead921]

We have Peter in Amazing Spider-man, Avenging Spider-man, New Avengers, Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-man, etc. Miles is doing great, and the book has maintained a consistent level of quality. I'd like to see what happens with Miles. Peter Parker is my favorite superhero ever, but there's other places where I can read about him. I like the variety that the current Ultimate Universe is giving us.

[Heroid]

No. No. NO! This is WHY we get in the messes we get into in the first place. "Oh hey this horrible idea that no one liked, keep it. I'd rather have sales go down in flames and lose all our fans before we ever admit we were wrong."

You people want to know why comic sales are dying? It's because comics are too damn depressing. Tune in today and watch 20 X Men die. Next week, watch 40 of them die. Make Peter sell his marriage to the devil. Hey you know that new character we just made? Kill him/her in a Battle Royal story because we need to be "edgy." I wouldn't give a comic book to a child in this day and age. There is nothing kid friendly about them. The ONLY thing comics these days are capable of doing seem to be is to do something that makes even MORE people quit the book. You aren't getting new readers. So instead, how about we try to get the old readers back?

How about we have comic books actually be fun again? It's simple. One issue: A villain tries to use (insert insane/funny/amazing device) on (insert thing we need to save). Hero comes in, saves the day, and the villain escapes. Comics should be triumphant, not a tedium in endless sorrow and misery. Not every issue should be a wham issue. Could you imagine if EVERY cartoon out there was a hentai? People would be pretty damn sick of seeing tentacles and no one would their kids watch any. Well....that's basically what happened to the comic industry.

Also, the problem with the industry are the creators of the comics going, "I'm in the industry so I decide what people want." And then when sales don't go their way, they blame the fans for not being "good enough" fans. The writers/editors need to cash their egos at the door. This is not manga where you are allowed to have only 12 issues and the entire series is over, you are writing stories designed to last 100 years. You can't do that by purposely getting rid of every character people like and failing to make better new ones.

And DC has this issue too. They flat out removed a poll because they didn't get the results they liked. The general thought I get when I think of a comic book writer these days is, "I decide what you want, and if you don't want that, you are wrong. I know what you want."

I agree with a LOT of this. Like I said, if you're going to do serialized superheroes, you have to write to the title and not to the writer's ego.

We have Peter in Amazing Spider-man, Avenging Spider-man, New Avengers, Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-man, etc. Miles is doing great, and the book has maintained a consistent level of quality. I'd like to see what happens with Miles. Peter Parker is my favorite superhero ever, but there's other places where I can read about him. I like the variety that the current Ultimate Universe is giving us.

Yes, the book is maintaining a consistent level of quality -- flat, boring, bad.

[webhead921]

I would strongly disagree with that. I find it to be a very exciting and entertaining book, and I'm looking forward to what Bendis has in store for Miles in the future.

[atlasjj]

No. No. NO! This is WHY we get in the messes we get into in the first place. "Oh hey this horrible idea that no one liked, keep it. I'd rather have sales go down in flames and lose all our fans before we ever admit we were wrong."

You people want to know why comic sales are dying? It's because comics are too damn depressing. Tune in today and watch 20 X Men die. Next week, watch 40 of them die. Make Peter sell his marriage to the devil. Hey you know that new character we just made? Kill him/her in a Battle Royal story because we need to be "edgy." I wouldn't give a comic book to a child in this day and age. There is nothing kid friendly about them. The ONLY thing comics these days are capable of doing seem to be is to do something that makes even MORE people quit the book. You aren't getting new readers. So instead, how about we try to get the old readers back?

How about we have comic books actually be fun again? It's simple. One issue: A villain tries to use (insert insane/funny/amazing device) on (insert thing we need to save). Hero comes in, saves the day, and the villain escapes. Comics should be triumphant, not a tedium in endless sorrow and misery. Not every issue should be a wham issue. Could you imagine if EVERY cartoon out there was a hentai? People would be pretty damn sick of seeing tentacles and no one would their kids watch any. Well....that's basically what happened to the comic industry.

Also, the problem with the industry are the creators of the comics going, "I'm in the industry so I decide what people want." And then when sales don't go their way, they blame the fans for not being "good enough" fans. The writers/editors need to cash their egos at the door. This is not manga where you are allowed to have only 12 issues and the entire series is over, you are writing stories designed to last 100 years. You can't do that by purposely getting rid of every character people like and failing to make better new ones.

And DC has this issue too. They flat out removed a poll because they didn't get the results they liked. The general thought I get when I think of a comic book writer these days is, "I decide what you want, and if you don't want that, you are wrong. I know what you want."

Haven't comic book sales been the best in years? With both DC doing the New 52 and the Marvel Now both causing comics to sell over 100,000. And the current run of Ultimate Spider-Man is selling about the same as when Peter was Spider-Man post Ultimatum.

And always having a happy story becomes boring. Having drama can add to the story, but always expecting the hero to win the end can get old rather fast. But when you get a change where the hero loses once in a while it can give it more life.

Another thing I have been enjoying what Bendis has been doing with Miles more than half of what he was doing with Peter post Ultimatum.

Yes, the book is maintaining a consistent level of quality -- flat, boring, bad.

That is how you feel, but for me and others we have found it entertaining and level of high quality.

[Plawsky]

No. No. NO! This is WHY we get in the messes we get into in the first place. "Oh hey this horrible idea that no one liked, keep it. I'd rather have sales go down in flames and lose all our fans before we ever admit we were wrong."

You people want to know why comic sales are dying? It's because comics are too damn depressing. Tune in today and watch 20 X Men die. Next week, watch 40 of them die. Make Peter sell his marriage to the devil. Hey you know that new character we just made? Kill him/her in a Battle Royal story because we need to be "edgy." I wouldn't give a comic book to a child in this day and age. There is nothing kid friendly about them. The ONLY thing comics these days are capable of doing seem to be is to do something that makes even MORE people quit the book. You aren't getting new readers. So instead, how about we try to get the old readers back?

How about we have comic books actually be fun again? It's simple. One issue: A villain tries to use (insert insane/funny/amazing device) on (insert thing we need to save). Hero comes in, saves the day, and the villain escapes. Comics should be triumphant, not a tedium in endless sorrow and misery. Not every issue should be a wham issue. Could you imagine if EVERY cartoon out there was a hentai? People would be pretty damn sick of seeing tentacles and no one would their kids watch any. Well....that's basically what happened to the comic industry.

Also, the problem with the industry are the creators of the comics going, "I'm in the industry so I decide what people want." And then when sales don't go their way, they blame the fans for not being "good enough" fans. The writers/editors need to cash their egos at the door. This is not manga where you are allowed to have only 12 issues and the entire series is over, you are writing stories designed to last 100 years. You can't do that by purposely getting rid of every character people like and failing to make better new ones.

And DC has this issue too. They flat out removed a poll because they didn't get the results they liked. The general thought I get when I think of a comic book writer these days is, "I decide what you want, and if you don't want that, you are wrong. I know what you want."

Clearly you're not reading very many comics if this is what you think "all comics" are doing. Ultimate Spider-man is not a dark or edgy comic. It's had 2 major deaths over 200+ issues - Gwen and Peter. And Gwen's back. The tone of the title is exactly what it was 10 years ago, just with a new character. There are plenty of other books out there that are fun or, at the very least, not "a tedium in endless sorrow and misery" - Fantastic Four/FF, Wolverine and the X-Men, Manhattan Projects, Invincible, Avengers and New Avengers, Avenging Spider-man... the list goes on and on. Sure, there are dark comics out there too, but that's hardly anything new. Ever since Watchmen, there have been loads of popular dark or "edgy" comics.

I know you like to pop in every once in a while and criticize the comic industry, but you're completely wrong about sales. They're at the highest they have been in years. You're specifically criticizing the choice to kill Peter, saying it was a "horrible idea that no one liked" that will cause the book to lose all its fans. Well have you actually checked the sales on the title?

Oct 2007 - 74,232
Oct 2008 - 52,577
Oct 2009 - 52,781
Oct 2010 - 34,657
Oct 2011 - 52,521
Oct 2012 - 39,676

The post-Ultimatum and post-Death of Spider-man relaunch issues landed at almost the exact same number, showing that each relaunch was equally effective for Ultimate Spider-man. A year after the relaunch, the current volume is 5,000 (14.5%) copies higher. If everyone is jumping ship due to Death of Spider-man, how do you explain that? And how do you explain the drop of 18,000 copies between 10/07 and 10/08? That was before Ultimatum and long before Death of Spider-man.

Yes, sales have dropped on the title. No one is denying that. But there is absolutely no correlation between dropped sales and any one event. If anything, the sales drops point more toward Marvel's shift in focus from the Ultimate line to the Avengers franchise.

Until you actually show that you've looked at the sales data, it's clear that you're just making things up to fit your argument.

[Sillia]

Didn't they resurrect Beast in Ultimate X-men a while back as well? I know they resurrected Ultimate Gwen, so bringing certain characters back to life isn't exactly lacking in precedent. That said, I think Miles needs some time to actually be Spider-Man. So far it feels like he's been on his heels as event after event is sprung on him, and he's never had a chance to be normal. Things have happened to him (his uncle, this united we stand thing, dealing with SHIELD and the Ultimates, etc.) and he reacts to them, but he hasn't had much chance to establish a status quo. I kind of miss it, actually. It makes UCSM feel more like an event book than anything else.

[Wolverine12]

Clearly you're not reading very many comics if this is what you think "all comics" are doing. Ultimate Spider-man is not a dark or edgy comic. It's had 2 major deaths over 200+ issues - Gwen and Peter. And Gwen's back. The tone of the title is exactly what it was 10 years ago, just with a new character. There are plenty of other books out there that are fun or, at the very least, not "a tedium in endless sorrow and misery" - Fantastic Four/FF, Wolverine and the X-Men, Manhattan Projects, Invincible, Avengers and New Avengers, Avenging Spider-man... the list goes on and on. Sure, there are dark comics out there too, but that's hardly anything new. Ever since Watchmen, there have been loads of popular dark or "edgy" comics.

I know you like to pop in every once in a while and criticize the comic industry, but you're completely wrong about sales. They're at the highest they have been in years. You're specifically criticizing the choice to kill Peter, saying it was a "horrible idea that no one liked" that will cause the book to lose all its fans. Well have you actually checked the sales on the title?

Oct 2007 - 74,232
Oct 2008 - 52,577
Oct 2009 - 52,781
Oct 2010 - 34,657
Oct 2011 - 52,521
Oct 2012 - 39,676

The post-Ultimatum and post-Death of Spider-man relaunch issues landed at almost the exact same number, showing that each relaunch was equally effective for Ultimate Spider-man. A year after the relaunch, the current volume is 5,000 (14.5%) copies higher. If everyone is jumping ship due to Death of Spider-man, how do you explain that? And how do you explain the drop of 18,000 copies between 10/07 and 10/08? That was before Ultimatum and long before Death of Spider-man.

Yes, sales have dropped on the title. No one is denying that. But there is absolutely no correlation between dropped sales and any one event. If anything, the sales drops point more toward Marvel's shift in focus from the Ultimate line to the Avengers franchise.

Until you actually show that you've looked at the sales data, it's clear that you're just making things up to fit your argument.

Really Plawsky, only 2 major deaths?? Aren't we forgetting someone named Ben?

[sage6paths]

Really Plawsky, only 2 major deaths?? Aren't we forgetting someone named Ben?

He wasn't major though. If we want a major death. I think Plawsky forget that Harry died. I know it was a while ago but man people forget stuff really fast.

[Plawsky]

Really Plawsky, only 2 major deaths?? Aren't we forgetting someone named Ben?

Yeah, I skipped Ben, because that's an implied death. I did, however, forget to mention Harry. There's also Cpt. Stacy and Jean DeWolfe, but they were hardly major characters (and she was a bad guy anyway). The point remains, though... it's not a doom and gloom comic by any means.

[Wolverine12]

Yeah, I skipped Ben, because that's an implied death. I did, however, forget to mention Harry. There's also Cpt. Stacy and Jean DeWolfe, but they were hardly major characters (and she was a bad guy anyway). The point remains, though... it's not a doom and gloom comic by any means.

So the death that caused Peter to become the person he was isn't major.....okay.

[Plawsky]

So the death that caused Peter to become the person he was isn't major.....okay.

Oh come on, you know what I mean!!!!

[VRaptorX]

I'm talking about general trends when I say sales are lower. All around, every company. And every person I have met, and myself included, all point to the same thing (and same with wrestling too). Comics just aren't fun any more. It seems like every single issue is super depressing, with someone raped here and then someone dies here, and you need to buy 20 issues just to get one plot finished. I would not let my theoretical children have them. And any comic that is lighthearted, such as Blue Beetle, gets ripped to shreds, cancelled, etc.

IMO, the MOVIES are better than the comics.Think Avengers. Sure, the Shield got got stabbed but he went out with a bang, got the last shot on Loki and made a nice funny joke about it. That was epic. But what would happen if he died in the comics? Nothing, he'd be yet another statistic in the "if you don;t kill someone, it isn't a good story" mindset.

There is only so many times you can put out just sheer depressing stories month after month before you get sick of them.

Right now comics are only surviving because they throw out event comics every other month and new number 1s.