View Poll Results: Star Wars 7 director?

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  • Steven Spielberg (Friend of Lucas, has often come close to directing a SW)

    7 8.05%
  • George Lucas again

    3 3.45%
  • David Lynch (Almost directed ROTJ)

    0 0%
  • David Filoni (director of Clone Wars movie and series)

    3 3.45%
  • Christopher Nolan (The Dark Knight Trilogy)

    4 4.60%
  • Joss Whedon (Serenity, Avengers, various TV series)

    22 25.29%
  • J. J Abrams (Star Trek, Super 8, various TV series)

    13 14.94%
  • Frank Darabont (Almost directed TPM)

    0 0%
  • Kathleen Kennedy (Basically is co-chair of Lucasfilm)

    0 0%
  • Gendy Tartovsky (The original Clone Wars micro series, various TV series and Hotel Transylvania)

    4 4.60%
  • Brad Bird (Incredibles, Mission Impossible IV)

    14 16.09%
  • Francis Ford Copolla (Godfather trilogy & friend of Lucas)

    0 0%
  • Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings trilogy)

    6 6.90%
  • Guillermo del Toro (Pan's Labyrynth, Hellboy)

    7 8.05%
  • others

    4 4.60%
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  1. #1606
    dashing sherlockbones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Robb View Post
    I'm pretty sure there's already a thread on these subjects, with the exact same Lucas quotes (and some fake ones, which was pretty funny.)
    lol what?
    who faked and what was faked?

  2. #1607
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verslibre View Post
    Which means he never was able to sever the tie, which is understandable. He and his mommy had nobody. It's like leaving your mom to be a bag lady and you think it's cool that the Jedi Order wants you to leave her to go train. "Don't worry, dumpster divers live for years on scraps!" Manny had midichlorians all over him like a fungus and inside him like candida, but instead of the Chosen One, he's the Chosen Sonuvagun who proverbially drop-kicked Mace Jackson in the worst way. Maybe if he'd been allowed a visit here or there, that wouldn't have all happened. But then you have no story, eh?
    Visiting Shmi wouldn't have changed a thing. He would still have fear for her safety and an inability to accept that people will come and go in our lives. He had to accept that he could not stop people from dying. He has this power, but what good is it if he cannot save the ones he loves. That's what bothers him. He believes that if he was strong enough in the Force, then he would have known that she was going to be taken and tortured to death. He believes if he was stronger than he was, then he wouldn't have lost her. He wants to fight against death, because death is the ultimate form of change.

    It illustrates that 'Kin is incapable of the kind of discernment that should be expected of all Jedi, if you ask me. It makes him another black sheep. If I buy his drop-dime flip-flop to being Palp's underling, then it makes him the Chosen Sith and he never was meant to be a Jedi. At least not in a living state.
    The prophecy never said that he had to be a Jedi or a Sith, in order to fulfill his destiny. Anyway, he sides with Palpatine because he was forced to. Mace was going to kill him and he did what he could to stop it, but failed. Knowing that he could not go back from this betrayal, he was left with the option of going forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simbob4000
    More than just Yoda makes remarks about Anakin, and even Obi-Wan says something about him being dangerous
    Yoda and Obi-wan are the only ones to label him as dangerous. And Obi-wan changes his mind based on what Anakin did and what he promised Qui-gon.

    Yeah, therein lies the problem. We aren't given any reason for them changing there minds, it's just bad writing.
    We know the reason. I told you it already. The Sith are back and the boy is destined to one day destroy them.

    Them not being a military organization or government doesn't change shit, there some kind of quasi-religious order of psychic monk wizard samurai knights, that clearly have some set of rules that are never explained. We know know how Qui-Gon training Anakin against the Council's wishes would have played out, because he dies and for no reason the Council change there mind...for all we know Qui-Gon would have just left and train the kid by himself.
    The Council changes their mind because the Sith are back and because he's destined to destroy them and bring balance.

    He beat one guy, one guy who maybe would have been killed years ago if Anakin hadn't been around. He also led an attack on the Jedi temple and killed Mace Windu...only in bizarro world could it be though that Anakin worked out well.
    I never said that he worked out well. But he did something that no Jedi had done in ages. Come back from the dark side and destroyed the Dark Lord and then passed on himself. All the previous efforts to eradicate the Sith ended in failure, because one always managed to survive to restart things. A thousand years ago, a large number of Sith were killed and it was thought to have been the end of it. But Darth Bane survived and trained himself an Apprentice, who continued that cycle for a thousand years. Palpatine killed Plagueis while Maul was later killed by Obi-wan. Tyrannus was killed by Anakin, who would later become Vader. Vader becomes Anakin and again and takes out Sidious, before dying from his injuries.

    That isn't something that should have changed there mind about Anakin being danger
    But it was. They looked at the bigger picture regarding the Sith, who was the more dangerous threat of the two. A thousand years ago, they had once held control over much of the galaxy. They were not going to let that happen again.

    I'm not really sure what you point is, or at least what it has to do with what I said. I know what the overall story in the prequels is meant to be, you don't need some stupid prophecy and the whole Jedi Council being freaked out about Anakin to tell a story about Anakin's fall from graces...which is something we don't see anyways, and The Phantom Menace doesn't really work into well.
    We did see his fall. Anakin was a hero without fear. He had become a Jedi Knight and was able to sit on the Council. He had a wife who was pregnant with two children. He had his friends and the adulation of many. He had everything, but he wanted more and that desire for more lead to his downfall. TPM ties into it because we saw his humble beginnings and saw how the entire conflict that shaped the galaxy began.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guapo Mendez
    But yet a stink it remains.
    Only because you make a stink about it.

    Many problems with the prequels are that Lucas went the wrong way when expanding the OT. Why on Earth would he think we wanted to see a 9 year old Vader is beyond me.
    He wasn't doing that for us. He was doing it because that is where the story lead him.

    For the supposed story of Darth Vader, the first movie he's just buffeted around, with no control over anything.
    Which is a theme that plays into the grander scheme of things.

    And he still missed the mark. After giving 40% in TPM and AOTC, he realized he still had 80% of the story to tell. It seems to me his math is way, way off.
    He didn't miss the mark. He just didn't do what you wanted him to do.

    And Superman's origin didn't give us him winning the junior chemistry competition in order to win the parts his dad needed to finish the rocket while Krypton exploded.
    No, but it could have. That's the point. Very little was explained in the origin of Vader and the origin of Superman. Anything else that was added, was done so later on as the ideas came to them. Action Comics #1 never indicated that he was Superboy, but later on, Superboy was added to the origin. ROTJ had Obi-wan talking about when he first met Anakin, but not about the details of said meeting. Such as where they were and what they were doing.

    And yet you have your most junior Knight train the Chosen One? What, the janitor wasn't available? No disrespect to Obi's abilities, but wouldn't it have been better to see if he could teach a regular, run of the mill youngling and then see if he could handle The Chosen One?
    Because Obi-wan had already promised Qui-gon that he was going to do it and they respected his wishes. They were not going to interfere as they often did not with other Padawans. If Obi-wan had been neglectful in his duties, then another would step in and take over. Which is what Yoda did with Dooku.

    I don't remember young padawans in battlefields in AOTC.
    Not Younglings, no. But Padawans in their teens. There was the one that looked mostly bald. I believe that was a Padawan.

  3. #1608
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapo Mendez
    So now trials involve the verbotten aspect of family contact? Man, those Jedis and their wacky rules.
    That's just part of their training in general. In Xanatos' case, it had become a point of pride for him which is why Yoda sent them off like that. His father had gone from being poor and a nobody, to a powerful figure on their homeworld. Xanatos chose to side with his father in a forthcoming conflict, which went against the Jedi Code. Qui-gon was forced to intervene and that lead to the death of Xanatos's father and the duel between Master and Padawan. He failed because he had let his attachment to his father cloud his judgment.

    Oh, no. This is Lucas doing a major bit of revisionism to fit the "it was Anakin's story all along".
    No, because in reading the first two drafts of ANH, as well as the introduction in the novelization, you see that Lucas was just as interested in the rise of an evil man and how government can be corrupted.

    When will he be ready if he's not made ready? There's a chance you'll drown, but to learn how to swim, you need to be in the water.
    Luke would know when he had completed his training, something that he didn't get to finish on account of his leaving before he was done.

    YODA: "Unexpected this is, and unfortunate..."

    LUKE: "Unfortunate that I know the truth?"

    YODA: "No. Unfortunate that you rushed to face him... that incomplete was your training. Not ready for the burden were you."

    And is that in any movie?
    Hell, he could have taken Luke to Dagobah, but they all washed their hands and just left the girl with the rich dude.
    YODA: "Hidden, safe, the children must be kept."

    OBI-WAN: "We must take them somewhere the Sith will not sense their presence."

    YODA: "Split up, they should be."

    BAIL ORGANA: "My wife and I will take the girl. We've always talked of adopting a baby girl. She will be loved with us."

    OBI-WAN: "And what of the boy?"

    YODA: "To Tatooine. To his family, send him."

    OBI-WAN: "I will take the child and watch over him."

    YODA: "Until the time is right, disappear we will."

    Fate is not random. It would have served the story better to have her death mean something other than a tribute to randomness.
    It's random in that none of the Sith were involved. It was one of life's little occurrences. It's something that happens because it happened, not because someone manipulated events to result in it's occurrence. The death means that Anakin now faces uncertainty in his abilities, because he thought that he had the means to do anything, but in reality, he didn't. He now wants to become more powerful to prevent harm from befalling his loved ones.

    That's from the time when ANH was Luke's story.
    It applies to his father as well, who only focused on the smaller issues in his personal life and not the bigger picture.

    So it's four sides of the Force then: Dark, Light, Cosmic and Living.
    No, two sides. The Unifying Force and the Living Force as the same aspects of the Force, which applies to both Jedi and Sith. The Living Force is as Lucas says, what the Jedi and Sith use all the time. The levitation, mind manipulation and having strong reflexes among others. The Unifying is when the Jedi and Sith look to the Force for answers to life's mysteries. When Anakin and Luke have their visions of the future, or the Jedi's ability to foresee future events such as their pending fall, are all connected to that. When Luke refuses to go to Endor, he is trying to deny the Unifying Force. When he gets there and finds his father, he comes to realize that he must try to save him. He can feel that through the Force. The light and the darkness is what divides the two and how they use the Force.

    In a battle between good and evil, especially when we're talking about movies and not real life, there can't be a balance. Ever. One is going to defeat/destroy the other.
    The balance is that good and evil will always exist, but they must be in perpetual balance to each other. When the Sith created the Clone Wars conflict, it caused a tremendous amount of evil to exist in the galaxy. Fear and greed were the order of the day. Fear is what drove the conflict and is what drove the Republic into giving up it's freedoms for security. The acts of the Alliance lead by the Skywalker children resulted in good overcoming evil and thus the balance is reset. Evil will always exist. There will always be criminals and greedy individuals, but there will also always be those who are compassionate and caring. Seeking to help others instead of themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper
    It's not the genetic ability people take issue with in the prequels, just the midichlorians which came out of nowhere.
    So how is that any different? All it does is explain it in a more concrete manner.

    If my friends are getting tortured and killed, I'm way past "creeped out".
    Who said that they were being killed? That was the point. Luke didn't know and just made an assumption based on fear. He didn't approach it calmly and rationally, as all Jedi would.

  4. #1609
    The Mexican James Bond Guapo Méndez's Avatar
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    So what this means is as I said, Anakin is put up against fate. He has many opportunities in which he needs to fulfill his destiny, but he refuses because of his desire to control life and death. To control people. To control himself.
    So he was destined to be grudgingly admitted into the Jedi, destroy them, wait 20-30 years and then kill the bad guy and die in the process? Only Lucas could have come up with such a shoddy prophecy.

    The point is to show how far Anakin will go to achieve his own dreams, but he is hoisted by his own petard. In trying to prevent this bleak future, he winds up causing it.
    Nah, that's Lucas putting a coat of paint over a steel girder and calling it a pine tree.

    Fate and destiny is not completely set in stone. Hence Luke does not become a Sith Lord, as Palpatine claims. Padme does die because of Anakin's actions and as we saw, the circumstances surrounding that change slightly. The conflict in the films is what can and cannot be done. Death of natural causes is fate, because we all die eventually. That was Yoda's lesson to Luke in ROTJ, when he says that he is not strong enough to stave off death. But in AOTC and ROTS, Anakin wants to stop death and goes to great lengths to try and achieve his goals.
    I don't know. I prefer my villains to be motivated by a desire to rule the universe and not be bitter because his mommy died and the Jedi were mean to him. There was a good story and then Lucas gave us the prequels, where he tried to force everything to fit his new perspective. No matter how much he wants it to be, the OT is not Vader's story. It's Luke's.

    Military personnel do not have a power coursing through them that is fueled by negative emotions and can cause a person to become evil and twisted. One soldier will not become a powerful tyrant if they give into fear, anger, hate, jealousy and possessiveness. There is a world of difference.
    Sure they have: they have access to guns, ammo, bombs, grenades, tanks, missiles, nukes. One soldier will become a powerful tyrant if he was weapons (The Force) and if he gives into fear, anger, hate, jealousy and possessiveness. History is full of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Obi-wan was a Youngling once and Obi-wan did train Vader, who is Anakin.
    Yes, but Yoda said he trained the Jedi and Obi-Wan thought he could train Anakins as well as Yoda could. When you have 3 movies to set up a universe and make it gel with the one you have up and running, it's a mistake to introduce the mentor of the mentor and show there was another mentor of the mentor of the mentor.

    Too many mentors, too little time.

    Age limits being brought up in TESB and in ROTS, the Jedi make a decision to change how they train future Jedi.
    Where do they say this?

    No, we did not have that. We had Obi-wan telling Luke a story.
    Why is it that the OT has the plot points condensed to the least amount of information needed and the prequels are chock-full with useless characters and information?

    One is not a contradiction and the other is not a contradiction either, since the evil destroyed the good.
    When telling his story, they glossed over pretty much every major accomplishment in his life and just left him with space freighter pilot.

    Neither of which is a contradiction.
    And neither is a plot point that went anywhere. Who is Anakin's dad? Who knows. How can The Force conceive? Does it have Boy Force parts and Girl Force parts? Are there FTD's?

    Luke was a great pilot, but only pilots a landspeeder.
    Yeah, but it's different when we're talking about a 9 year old boy, conceived by the Force, builder of C3PO, podracer, heavy-duty tinkerer and the subject of a rather heavy-handed prophecy. It's too much. A pinch of salt is good for the stew. Five spoonfuls and the thing is inedible.

    Nothing was contradicted. The Jedi had done their job for twenty five thousand years, before being wiped out by the Clone Wars and the Jedi Purge.
    I get that Lucas needed a way to get rid of thousands of Jedis. Instead of giving us a no-holds barred fight between the Jedi and the Sith/Mandalorrean/Clones, he gave us the best stuff in the cartoons or implied it between movies.

    Who was not weak minded.
    It's the icing in the crap cake: the engine fails, they are stuck in Tatooine, they need a part and after one "no", they give up on getting the part.

    Which doesn't change anything that wasn't already established by Lucas to begin with.
    You can be a strong believer and be strong in the Force, but if you're stuck with a low count of midichlorians, you're screwed. Yoda said that Luke failed because he didn't believe it, not because his midichlorians were not communicating with the Force enough.

    Which is not contradicted at all, because Yoda trained Jedi in the ways of the Force. Qui-gon did not teach in the ways of the Force. He taught Obi-wan in other ways. There's a difference in what you learn in the classroom and what you learn on the streets. A person who becomes a police officer is trained by those at the academy. Once they graduate and are given their assigned station house, they are then paired up with an experienced officer until they are no longer considered a rookie. The same applies to the Jedi.
    But Obi-Wan didn't say that he was trained by the finest Jedis. He only mentioned Yoda. And if his last teacher was Qui-Gon, why didn't he mention it? And why did the jedis put a still wet-behind-the-ears Knight instead of one with more seniority?

    Lucas wasted Tarkin in ANH.
    Oh, no. Peter Cushing and Sir Alec Guiness lent a lot of weight to the production. Maul was all flash and no substance.

    Yoda was looking for excuses not to train Luke, twenty three years after he said that they need to go into hiding and wait until the children are older, to begin training them.
    Excuses, not disqualification via their rules. Besides, isn't it a contradiction not to want to train the one you said you'd train when he's older?

  5. #1610
    dashing sherlockbones's Avatar
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    somewhere, in a galaxy far, far away, mat is typing right now

  6. #1611
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapo Méndez View Post
    So he was destined to be grudgingly admitted into the Jedi, destroy them, wait 20-30 years and then kill the bad guy and die in the process? Only Lucas could have come up with such a shoddy prophecy.
    No, those were all choices Anakin made. Remember, the future is always in motion. Things can change. Anakin could have in one possible line of events become the greatest of all Jedi, without his attachment issues and destroyed the Sith. In another, Anakin could have been found by Palpatine and raised to be a Sith, but turns on his Master and in the ensuing conflict, they both die. What was certain is that despite the journey, the destination was consistent.

    Nah, that's Lucas putting a coat of paint over a steel girder and calling it a pine tree.
    Guess you're not a fan of "Hamlet" and "Oedipus"? You know, two stories about men who tried to fight against their fate and in the end, wind up doing exactly what they didn't want to do.

    I don't know. I prefer my villains to be motivated by a desire to rule the universe and not be bitter because his mommy died and the Jedi were mean to him.
    Blame Lucas's friends for telling him to change ROTS.

    There was a good story and then Lucas gave us the prequels, where he tried to force everything to fit his new perspective. No matter how much he wants it to be, the OT is not Vader's story. It's Luke's.
    Lucas has said that the OT is about Luke and the PT is about Anakin. Their stories merge together in ROTJ, where the climax of both stories occur. Where Anakin becomes a good man again and fulfills his destiny, while Luke is able to save his father from himself and becomes a new type of Jedi Knight.

    Sure they have: they have access to guns, ammo, bombs, grenades, tanks, missiles, nukes. One soldier will become a powerful tyrant if he was weapons (The Force) and if he gives into fear, anger, hate, jealousy and possessiveness. History is full of them.
    Usually when a soldier becomes that way, it's often because they were that way to begin with. Not so much with the Jedi who can flip based on the power clouding their judgment.

    Yes, but Yoda said he trained the Jedi and Obi-Wan thought he could train Anakins as well as Yoda could. When you have 3 movies to set up a universe and make it gel with the one you have up and running, it's a mistake to introduce the mentor of the mentor and show there was another mentor of the mentor of the mentor.
    No, that's your opinion of it being a bad idea. Nothing with Qui-gon's existence contradicts anything in the OT. Nothing at all.

    Why is it that the OT has the plot points condensed to the least amount of information needed and the prequels are chock-full with useless characters and information?
    Because the films were made backwards.

    When telling his story, they glossed over pretty much every major accomplishment in his life and just left him with space freighter pilot.
    Which was a lie that Owen told Luke. Obi-wan told him the important stuff, which was that he was a good pilot. That he was a Jedi and fought in the Clone Wars before his "death".

    And neither is a plot point that went anywhere. Who is Anakin's dad? Who knows. How can The Force conceive? Does it have Boy Force parts and Girl Force parts? Are there FTD's?
    Qui-gon and Palpatine both addressed this in the films. The Force caused the Midichlorians to create Anakin. Whether it did it on it's own or by a Sith Lord is left for the audience to decide.

    Yeah, but it's different when we're talking about a 9 year old boy, conceived by the Force, builder of C3PO, podracer, heavy-duty tinkerer and the subject of a rather heavy-handed prophecy. It's too much. A pinch of salt is good for the stew. Five spoonfuls and the thing is inedible.
    No different from Christ who could walk on water, heal the sick, come back from the dead and turn water into wine.

    I get that Lucas needed a way to get rid of thousands of Jedis. Instead of giving us a no-holds barred fight between the Jedi and the Sith/Mandalorrean/Clones, he gave us the best stuff in the cartoons or implied it between movies.
    That's fanboy wankery.

    It's the icing in the crap cake: the engine fails, they are stuck in Tatooine, they need a part and after one "no", they give up on getting the part.
    Funny, because they did get the part.

    You can be a strong believer and be strong in the Force, but if you're stuck with a low count of midichlorians, you're screwed. Yoda said that Luke failed because he didn't believe it, not because his midichlorians were not communicating with the Force enough.
    Again, not a contradiction.

    But Obi-Wan didn't say that he was trained by the finest Jedis. He only mentioned Yoda. And if his last teacher was Qui-Gon, why didn't he mention it?
    Because Yoda is the one who is going to teach Luke to use the Force, just as he taught Obi-wan and Qui-gon and other Jedi before them.

    And why did the jedis put a still wet-behind-the-ears Knight instead of one with more seniority?
    Qui-gon was wet behind the ears when he trained his first Padawan. So was Dooku when he taught Qui-gon. So is Luke when he begins to train Leia.

    Oh, no. Peter Cushing and Sir Alec Guiness lent a lot of weight to the production. Maul was all flash and no substance.
    I meant wasted as in killed him off in ANH, rather than saving him for TESB and ROTJ.

    Excuses, not disqualification via their rules.
    The rules changed.

    Besides, isn't it a contradiction not to want to train the one you said you'd train when he's older?
    Only when Luke turns out to be a disappointment. Compare Luke to Leia. The latter seems more surefire to be a Jedi than the former. She didn't seek adventure and excitement. She would have remained patient with Yoda's testing. She wasn't as reckless as Luke was.

  7. #1612
    The Mexican James Bond Guapo Méndez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    He didn't forget. He resolved it with Leia saying that she had known in some way, that there was something that prevented them from being anything other than friends. He chose to not have them act all grossed out over it.
    After the cheap trick of saying there's another one, he pulls another and makes Leia and Luke brother and sister after spending 1 1/2 movies putting them in a triangle.

    Because Yoda was the one who taught Obi-wan how to use the Force and Yoda was going to do the same for Luke. Qui-gon taught Obi-wan how to be a Jedi in the field. Qui-gon and Obi-wan cannot teach Luke the ways of the Force. Yoda can, just as he did for Obi-wan fifty years ago.
    Nah, that was Lucas just trying to be a clever boy. If only he hadn't split Obi-Wan into two characters, the TPM could have been marginally better.

    The Jedi are teaching Luke differently. They let him be with his family and now they're teaching him that he must learn to let go of his attachments to his loved ones. Vader interfered with that by capturing Han and Leia, knowing full well the effect it would have. That's why Obi-wan finally told Luke to not go, but he still ignored them. He learned from his mistakes and came back a year later, stronger than when he had left. At the end, Luke had to understand it for himself and did so because he fought Vader and finally understood why he could choose evil over good.
    Vader wanted Luke to either teach him as a Sith or kill him. They left him with the Lars to keep him alive, but he developed natural attachments, even when his uncle was a dick. If they wanted him to not have any attachments, they should have left him with Yoda in Dagobah.

    With the Force, where one can see the future and the past.
    It was better for the story to let us know Amidala spent her last days as the sad queen of Alderaan, feeling incredibly guilty for her role in the death of the Jedi and the Old Republic and not ForceVision.

    Which doesn't make them incompetent. They did not know that Palpatine was Sidious. They knew that he was an influence, but not how far and how deep. Nor was there anything in the OT that said that Anakin was trusted by the Jedi Order, at all. Only that Obi-wan trusted him and was crushed by his betrayal.
    Yes, it does. ForceVision? Clouded. ForceSith detection? Clouded. Clueless about the Sith. They lost Kamino. Sidious did things in their name... And the way Obi-Wan spoke of Anakin, the cunning warrior, the good friend implied he was one of the good ones.

    So you have to be wealthy and powerful, in order to be strong minded? I guess you're not strong minded since you're not Bill Gates. Good to know.
    Jabba ruled a criminal empire in Tatooine. He was killing Jedis when that meant something. It's believable he'd be immune to Force powers. Watto is a piddly little dealer. Not that believable.

    And I'm not Bill Gates, but I do extremely well.

    A bet that gained him the parts and freed the boy, who was quite possibly the Chosen One.
    While Nabooideans were dying.

    Midichlorians is how one can use the Force, while another cannot. Belief only applies to using it to do impossible feats, such as lifting up a ship and taking out a hundred men that are armed with lasers and you have only a laser sword.
    So you can have the least amount of midichlorians and the belief you can do the most impossible feats and outdo Yoda? If that's the way it works, then midichlorians are irrelevant.

    Lucas didn't cut out the shooting in ANH. He just used a different camera angle and added a few effects shots. Here, it would require cutting out from Leia's comeback to Leia being completely missing and Han standing there befuddled. He couldn't get away with another person walks by like in ANH, a scene which the general public did not see in 1977 and until 1996. Any other edit would call too much attention to itself.
    Letting the kiss stand calls too much attention to itself. A cut when she says "I guess you don't know everything about women" solves it.

  8. #1613
    BANNED Phil Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapo Méndez View Post
    So you can have the least amount of midichlorians and the belief you can do the most impossible feats and outdo Yoda? If that's the way it works, then midichlorians are irrelevant.
    This is just one example of the way you twist someones words to make them seem incorrect. It seems to be the only way you know how to argue your points. The original post you quoted didn't say anything about belief overriding midichlorians. What they said was that you had to have belief in your abilities AND midichlorians to do impossible things like lift ships, etc...

  9. #1614
    The Mexican James Bond Guapo Méndez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Only because you make a stink about it.
    Hey, I'm not the one who wrote a triangle and then decided to make two of them related and then compounded it by showing their birth in the prequels.

    He wasn't doing that for us. He was doing it because that is where the story lead him.
    He is the alpha and the omega of Star Wars. He could have chosen a better spot to start the story. One time he told Harrison Ford not to say "this is boring" in the movie, and yet, he said the political stuff was the boring part of the story. He wrote Star Wars trying to appeal to the largest amount of people and it worked. It paid off big time. On the other hand, Lucas catering to himself creates flops like THX-1138. Now that he had a product he knew we'd buy the hell out of it, he came at it, unfiltered and bam! 9 year old prodigys, disposable villains and pod races.

    Which is a theme that plays into the grander scheme of things.
    Please. The PT needs a lot of explaining to make things work: cartoons, books, tie-ins. There is very little coming from the movies themselves, which is what should have sustained it in the first place. In the OT, Luke, Vader, Obi-Wan, the Emperor are actively doing things. Move, countermove. TPM has The Force carrying Anakin all the way to the end-zone. It's cheap.

    He didn't miss the mark. He just didn't do what you wanted him to do.
    I wanted him to treat the PT with the same care he did the OT. Build up on it, yeah, but not pull things out of his ass. Then he started to tinker with the OT and all my hopes when up in smoke. And he did what you wanted? boy racer, mechanical prodigy, prophecy boy?

    No, but it could have. That's the point. Very little was explained in the origin of Vader and the origin of Superman. Anything else that was added, was done so later on as the ideas came to them. Action Comics #1 never indicated that he was Superboy, but later on, Superboy was added to the origin. ROTJ had Obi-wan talking about when he first met Anakin, but not about the details of said meeting. Such as where they were and what they were doing.
    Those stories had no continuity. Superboy? Try Superbaby kicking Brainiac's ass and destroying his treasure cache and playing frisbee with his space ship. They could do whatever they wanted.
    Movies have continuity. Especially sequels, trilogies and prequels. If you set a lot of plot points in the OT, you needed to address them in the prequels, not put whatever you wanted and say "The Force Did It" and "Yeah, I'm using another definition of the word pilot".

    Because Obi-wan had already promised Qui-gon that he was going to do it and they respected his wishes. They were not going to interfere as they often did not with other Padawans. If Obi-wan had been neglectful in his duties, then another would step in and take over. Which is what Yoda did with Dooku.
    Come on. The Jedi Knight will do better than the Council? Well, now I know why Lucas made the Council suck idiots. He needed to make Obi-Wan look good.

  10. #1615
    The Mexican James Bond Guapo Méndez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    That's just part of their training in general. In Xanatos' case, it had become a point of pride for him which is why Yoda sent them off like that. His father had gone from being poor and a nobody, to a powerful figure on their homeworld. Xanatos chose to side with his father in a forthcoming conflict, which went against the Jedi Code. Qui-gon was forced to intervene and that lead to the death of Xanatos's father and the duel between Master and Padawan. He failed because he had let his attachment to his father cloud his judgment.
    This is the problem with book tie-ins. They did this for Xanatos but not for the Chosen One?

    No, because in reading the first two drafts of ANH, as well as the introduction in the novelization, you see that Lucas was just as interested in the rise of an evil man and how government can be corrupted.
    Then you have to be extra careful in how you arm your story, instead of playing it by ear. Otherwise you end up ditching everything you put in the first 2 movies to resolve the main conflict. Which means you just jerked around your viewers for 2 and a half movies and that is not cool.

    Luke would know when he had completed his training, something that he didn't get to finish on account of his leaving before he was done.
    Still, he would have been better prepared if he had known the truth.

    YODA: "Unexpected this is, and unfortunate..."

    LUKE: "Unfortunate that I know the truth?"

    YODA: "No. Unfortunate that you rushed to face him... that incomplete was your training. Not ready for the burden were you."
    [/QUOTE]

    How long was the training going to last? The PT had it on years, the OT seemed like a 9 week intensive course.

    YODA: "Hidden, safe, the children must be kept."

    OBI-WAN: "We must take them somewhere the Sith will not sense their presence."

    YODA: "Split up, they should be."

    BAIL ORGANA: "My wife and I will take the girl. We've always talked of adopting a baby girl. She will be loved with us."

    OBI-WAN: "And what of the boy?"

    YODA: "To Tatooine. To his family, send him."

    OBI-WAN: "I will take the child and watch over him."

    YODA: "Until the time is right, disappear we will."
    And yet Obi-Wan goes "That boy is our last hope." You know he has a sister!

    It's random in that none of the Sith were involved. It was one of life's little occurrences. It's something that happens because it happened, not because someone manipulated events to result in it's occurrence. The death means that Anakin now faces uncertainty in his abilities, because he thought that he had the means to do anything, but in reality, he didn't. He now wants to become more powerful to prevent harm from befalling his loved ones.
    Hey, the Death Star could have blow up because of shoddy workmanship, but it's better to have it being blown by Luke.

    It applies to his father as well, who only focused on the smaller issues in his personal life and not the bigger picture.
    It applies to his father after the fact, with lots of Lucasplaining.

    No, two sides. The Unifying Force and the Living Force as the same aspects of the Force, which applies to both Jedi and Sith. The Living Force is as Lucas says, what the Jedi and Sith use all the time. The levitation, mind manipulation and having strong reflexes among others. The Unifying is when the Jedi and Sith look to the Force for answers to life's mysteries. When Anakin and Luke have their visions of the future, or the Jedi's ability to foresee future events such as their pending fall, are all connected to that. When Luke refuses to go to Endor, he is trying to deny the Unifying Force. When he gets there and finds his father, he comes to realize that he must try to save him. He can feel that through the Force. The light and the darkness is what divides the two and how they use the Force.
    Of course he'd add another twist to a familiar concept. If the OT had light and dark, the PT had to have living and cosmic. Yet another thing to explain instead of the major story. Tell me, was it mentioned again in AOTC or ROTS?

    The balance is that good and evil will always exist, but they must be in perpetual balance to each other. When the Sith created the Clone Wars conflict, it caused a tremendous amount of evil to exist in the galaxy. Fear and greed were the order of the day. Fear is what drove the conflict and is what drove the Republic into giving up it's freedoms for security. The acts of the Alliance lead by the Skywalker children resulted in good overcoming evil and thus the balance is reset. Evil will always exist. There will always be criminals and greedy individuals, but there will also always be those who are compassionate and caring. Seeking to help others instead of themselves.
    Balance is an equal amount of good and an equal amount of evil. That's why it's called balance. Evil wants evil to rule and that's why the Sith vanquishing the Jedi makes sense for them. The Jedi number in the thousands, which means the Light is heavier than the Dark. It's unbalanced. Only a council of fools would think having a kid be the one to bring balance to the Force is a good thing. No one went "hey, why do we need a kid to bring balance to the Force? We're winning, right? Shouldn't it stay that way?"

  11. #1616
    dashing sherlockbones's Avatar
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    *edith*










    maaaadness

    illustrated:
    "And neither is a plot point that went anywhere. Who is Anakin's dad? Who knows. How can The Force conceive? Does it have Boy Force parts and Girl Force parts? Are there FTD's?"
    "Qui-gon and Palpatine both addressed this in the films. The Force caused the Midichlorians to create Anakin. Whether it did it on it's own or by a Sith Lord is left for the audience to decide. "

    anakin anti-christ. if we go with palpatine. jesus anakin if we go with mat001. no, just no
    Last edited by sherlockbones; 12-08-2012 at 05:39 PM.

  12. #1617
    BANNED Phil Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapo Méndez View Post
    How long was the training going to last? The PT had it on years, the OT seemed like a 9 week intensive course.
    Really? It is kind of like Martial Arts. It is a lifetime commitment if you want to become a full master. But you can learn the basics in a short period of time. Blackbelts can often be acheived in as little as two to three years. But to become a master takes five to ten years after that. Grand Master takes another 10 years or better. 25 years or so on average.

  13. #1618
    dashing sherlockbones's Avatar
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    kamino is the most vaiable argumentation against everything lucas (mat001) wants to sell. so there is xtratriblillion unkown clone and equipment agenda going on ...
    there is only halfwit excuses in the EU
    the movies itself provide no believable attempt to sell this story.
    that is why the prequels are absolute garbage. (arguably, i heard there is even more)
    nothing in the movies makes it believable, it is just a wasted clone story
    and it could have been great... if only somebody in charge said "george, i am sorry. this sucks"

    *edit*
    every planet can come up with a few million soldiers. from a storytelling pov, who cares about robot armies? it just addes up to:
    nothing

    when (FANBOY ME;back in 1981)I heard of the idea of a clone army, i imagined something threating the very existince of NORMAL people (like me) making the clones viable, a galaxy (society) nearly extinguished, because clones were the better citizens(facist allegory, all human soldiers compared to a rich diversity of species). yeah, all my imagination. in which WE (self entitled fanboys, remember; we didn t knew then) made lucas great, cause we followed him on his (foolish *giggle*) space trip. compared to the basic superhero/nostaligia formula star wars is now selling (a department he has been extraordinary great in)

    MYSTERIES OF THE SITH
    Click image for larger version. 

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    PT FAAAAAAAAAILED to deliver


    sell that funky shit to me white boy *swing*

    maybe i just lack that anal character


    keep lucas far away from future star wars projects. it will be great!

    *edit*
    one more: FANBOY
    (might be translated into middlefinger, but might be splinter in the mind´s eye)
    Last edited by sherlockbones; 12-08-2012 at 07:28 PM.

  14. #1619
    The Mexican James Bond Guapo Méndez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    No, those were all choices Anakin made. Remember, the future is always in motion. Things can change. Anakin could have in one possible line of events become the greatest of all Jedi, without his attachment issues and destroyed the Sith. In another, Anakin could have been found by Palpatine and raised to be a Sith, but turns on his Master and in the ensuing conflict, they both die. What was certain is that despite the journey, the destination was consistent.
    He's dragged into a conflict when he's 9, they don't want to train him, they don't rescue his mother from slavery, they don't let him see her again, they don't trust him to tell him the truth about Palpatine, they don't trust him to tell him about the rebellion and they were surprised when he turned out bad? Anakin didn't made a lot of good choices because they dealt him shittier and shittier hands.

    Guess you're not a fan of "Hamlet" and "Oedipus"? You know, two stories about men who tried to fight against their fate and in the end, wind up doing exactly what they didn't want to do.
    And "Hamlet" and "Oedipus" are the prequels to...?

    Blame Lucas's friends for telling him to change ROTS.
    Vader's damage started in TPM and it just grew bigger.

    Lucas has said that the OT is about Luke and the PT is about Anakin. Their stories merge together in ROTJ, where the climax of both stories occur. Where Anakin becomes a good man again and fulfills his destiny, while Luke is able to save his father from himself and becomes a new type of Jedi Knight.
    Then he said it's all about Anakin.

    TOTAL FILM: "Are you happy for new Star Wars tales to be told after you're gone?"
    LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."


    Usually when a soldier becomes that way, it's often because they were that way to begin with. Not so much with the Jedi who can flip based on the power clouding their judgment.
    And other times they are just in the right place at the right time, with a gun in their hands. They can also turn on a dime and become despots.

    No, that's your opinion of it being a bad idea. Nothing with Qui-gon's existence contradicts anything in the OT. Nothing at all.
    The fact that Obi-Wan was split into Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, with the meatier parts of the character being given to the bigger star. Obi-Wan was going to be an established Knight and then they cut him up into Liam and Ewan sized bits.

    Because the films were made backwards.
    Yes, thank you. And they don't match.

    Which was a lie that Owen told Luke. Obi-wan told him the important stuff, which was that he was a good pilot. That he was a Jedi and fought in the Clone Wars before his "death".
    That he was a pilot and a tinkerer would have made him have stronger ties to Tatooine than to the epic stuff happening in the rebellion. The Boonta Eve stuff sounds like a major event, know in several planets and it doesn't gel with the idea that Tatooine is one of the most forgotten pits in the universe.

    Qui-gon and Palpatine both addressed this in the films. The Force caused the Midichlorians to create Anakin. Whether it did it on it's own or by a Sith Lord is left for the audience to decide.
    Nah, that's too clever for Georgie boy. He just plum forgot about following up with his cheap trick.

    No different from Christ who could walk on water, heal the sick, come back from the dead and turn water into wine.
    Yes, but we know of the prophecy from the prophet Isaiah and when we know about it, we're told the major points. We don't go during Luke or Matthew's gospel reading that he's just a carpenter and then in the prequels seeing that he has all those awesome powers and that he's recruited by Satan and starts working for the Romans.

    That's fanboy wankery.
    Sometimes a writer has no idea how to solve a situation.

    Funny, because they did get the part.
    While Naboo was being invaded and the death toll was catastrophic.

    Again, not a contradiction.
    There is a physical component and the amount of it in your body impacts how strong or weak your connection is to something. If belief is the lever and you've made midichlorians the fulcrum, where you put the fulcrum is going to have an impact: too close on the object and you can move it without too much effort; put it closer to you and you'll have a hard time lifting the slightest of weights.


    Because Yoda is the one who is going to teach Luke to use the Force, just as he taught Obi-wan and Qui-gon and other Jedi before them.
    And he forgot his master for more than what, 10 years? Why introduce a teacher you're not going to mention ever again if you have two perfectly good Jedis to use?

    Qui-gon was wet behind the ears when he trained his first Padawan. So was Dooku when he taught Qui-gon. So is Luke when he begins to train Leia.
    Nothing of that is in the hexalogy.

    I meant wasted as in killed him off in ANH, rather than saving him for TESB and ROTJ.
    The only equivalent would be if Vader had died in ANH and had been replaced by two other apprentices in TESB and ROTJ.

    The rules changed.
    And they never informed us.

    Only when Luke turns out to be a disappointment. Compare Luke to Leia. The latter seems more surefire to be a Jedi than the former. She didn't seek adventure and excitement. She would have remained patient with Yoda's testing. She wasn't as reckless as Luke was.
    Leia was smack-dab in the middle of the rebellion for years. Luke was a bloody farmer in the arse-end of the universe. They didn't exactly lead mirrored lives. He craved adventure and excitement; Leia was a princess, a senator and a major conspirator: calm, discretion and a cool head were needed to survive.

  15. #1620
    Senior Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Regarding the clone thing, I think in the Leigh Brackett version of ESB Lando was a clone and fought in the wars. Imagine an army of Billy Dee Williams!

    Timothy Zahn sort of did his own backdrop to the Clone Wars in his novels, and Hasbro had plans to continue their 80's action figure line with a new Clone Wars backstory. This was a time when Lucas was unsure there was going to be another trilogy, until CG advances changed his mind (Which happens of course, quite a lot).

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