Disney Buys Lucasfilm, Announces New "Star Wars" Movie For 2015

[jediracer]

a containerful of whipped cream smothered all over a sh!t pie.

Exactly what your mom served for Thanksgiving!

[verslibre]

^^^ Spoken like a true shameless fanboy.

[Vibranium]

Yeah, good point. No Lucas/Rick plus a decent director could have a reverse effect where people get too optimistic and set their hopes too high.

or they just won't give the new director a chance because these new movies don't make them feel like they did when they were 9 yrs old and seeing Star Wars or Empire for the first time

[jediracer]

^^^ Spoken like a true shameless fanboy.

better that than a whiny, bitter fanboy

[verslibre]

You might offend the bitter whiny fanboys on this forum.

[Mat001]

Didn't they think he was the Chosen One before the Battle of Naboo?

Qui-gon was the only one to think that. Obi-wan and the Council had their doubts. Even at the end, Yoda still has doubts which carried over through the rest of the PT. Mace starts believing at the end of TPM and throughout AOTC. By ROTS, Anakin's actions and attitude make him doubt.

Beside that they also think the kid's to dangerous to train, even at the end of the movie this is something that comes up, so they can't just be cool with little Annie after he accidentally blew a ship up.

It's not his abilities that they distrusted. It was his emotional connection to his mother. The Council only granted it officially because Obi-wan already told the Council that he was going to train Anakin, irregardless of their decision.

They also don't ever seem to trust him, but even if they did begin to after ten years, that doesn't have anything to do with Phantom Menace and them letting Obi-Wan train him.

They couldn't stop Obi-wan since he didn't have a Padawan and they knew of his promise to Qui-gon. They relented given that he did destroy the Federation ship without any Force training and with the return of the Sith now confirmed, the Council decided to err on the side of caution.

Weren't they having problems with the Falcon's hyperdrive, with TIE Fighters right on their asses? There was no moon conveniently nearby. That thing they ducked into was indeed comparable to a dead planetoid. It just doubled as a giant snail shell. Plus, if they didn't get out of there and emerged from the field with even one TIE Fighter out there, an Imperial cruiser could have come out of nowhere.

My point was that they didn't need an asteroid chase. Lucas, Kasdan and Kershner could have made a script without the asteroid field chase and still have it work out well.

You're overemphasizing making cuts for the sake of time lengths as opposed to making cuts to aid, not impede, the course of the story.

This presumes that the podrace impeded the story.

The pod race was a woefully boring aspect, overall. It was written and executed expressly for the 11 & under group. Luca$ forgot about everybody who saw his movies in '77-'83.

No different from the OT. A garbage masher which has a cliffhanger connotation like the Saturday morning matinees, which kids went to see a lot. Nor what is essentially a car chase with both the asteroid field and the speeder bike chase.

It's a pretty argument in Jedi philosophy, but it still comes off as bogus that nothing could have been done about her beforehand. No doubt hers wasn't ever the only unfortunate occurrence of its kind.

It wouldn't matter if his mother was on Coruscant or not. She was a liability to him. Sooner or later, something would happen and he couldn't prevent it. That was the point in having Shmi left behind and having Padme die in childbirth. The same way that Luke had to accept that his friends were willing to sacrifice themselves to first protect Luke and then die for the cause of freedom.

The triangle is still alive and well in ROTJ because, after everything Leia did when Han was coming out of the carbonite freeze, one visit from Luke and he was jealous as hell. What was it what he told Leia?

Han Solo: You love him,
[pause]
Han Solo: don't you?
Princess Leia: Yes.
Han Solo: All right. I understand. Fine. When he comes back, I won't get in the way.
Princess Leia: Oh, Han, it's not like that at all. He's my brother.

Obviously, Han should have gone "wait, didn't you kiss him to spite me in Hoth? What the hell are you two playing at?

That was Han being clueless, jealous and insecure. He didn't hear their earlier conversation and because he was frozen for a year, he didn't know what was going on. But he knew that Leia was in love with him, based on both her saying it and that she didn't want him to leave.

Oh, yeah. The previously unseen age limits disqualifying Anakin from training.

Previously seen in TESB, when Yoda said that Luke was too old to begin the training.

Number one blunder made by a supposed Jedi Master. They won't train him because he's dangerous and yet they won't not train him because that would be dangerous.

A catch-22 situation. The Jedi had stuck their methods for so long, that it was difficult to be flexible.

They don't keep him in Coruscant when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan have to return to Naboo, but they don't send him to Tatooine either.

That's because he was Qui-gon's responsibility. Hence not taking him back to Tatooine and not keeping him at the Temple. The Council would decide his fate later.

They also know he's too big to be taught the calming aspects of Jedihood, but they don't lift a finger to remove the one element that keeps him in fear: the safety of his mother.

That's because it is an internal struggle, not an external one. A Jedi must overcome their fears and attachments, by learning to let go of them. Simply removing Shmi from Tatooine wouldn't take away his fears. Nor would having Leia and Han not be in the Alliance with Luke. Ashoka understood it when Anakin was injured and his life was threatened by those injuries. Not at first, but she did as time went on.

Surrounded by a lot of filler. Too many characters, disposable villains, too many factions and not enough of the important character.

There were just as many characters in the OT as there were in the PT.

-Luke, Leia, Vader, Han, Palpatine, Boba, Lando, Threepio, Artoo, Yoda, Obi-wan, Tarkin, Piett, Jabba, Chewbacca, Ackbar, Wedge, Biggs, Mon Mothma, Owen and Beru.

-Anakin, Obi-wan, Qui-gon, Mace, Yoda, Jango, Palpatine, Threepio, Artoo, Jar Jar, Padme, Shmi, Boba, Chewbacca, Owen, Beru, Cliegg, Watto, Boss Nass, Grevious, Dooku, Maul, Nute and Bail.

There were only two factions, Republic and Separatist with Jedi and Sith in the middle. Same as in the OT with the Alliance versus the Empire.

He could have had his breakdown earlier, instead of in Cloud City, after losing a hand to Vader, and then he could have started working in the "let's redeem him" plot.

Luke wouldn't want to redeem him if he knew earlier. He wouldn't want to be a Jedi, either. He only does because of his confrontation on Cloud City. Obi-wan and Yoda want Vader dead and don't believe that he can come back.

It's a bit different in the case of the Rebel Alliance leader and a constantly-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-law smuggler. Shmee is just a slave with zero special skills and combat training. Even if Luke hadn't gone to Cloud City (Yoda was, in fact, expecting him not to go), Lando would have set them free. The ones he could, anyway.

You miss the point. Having the power of the Force is a great power, but it is fueled by emotions. Especially negative ones. Once a Jedi begins to feel the Force, they need to learn to control it which was Obi-wan's point to Luke, when he was going to leave. It is also Yoda's warnings about fear, anger and hate rising up quickly when confronted with combat. Anakin and Luke both needed to learn to control that aspect of themselves, but it was a difficult process and when worried about their loved ones, they felt either impotent or over confident. They have the power, but not the wisdom to use it properly. Anakin felt that he could save anyone because of his powers and that's why when he failed the first time, he vowed to not let it happen again. Even if it meant becoming all powerful. Luke felt over confident at first in TESB and then impotent in ROTJ. Same with Anakin in AOTC and in ROTS.

My point is that they had to accept the natural course of events. They had to accept their limitations. Anakin couldn't, but Luke could.

Keeping his mother safe would have shaved 9 years, 11 months and 29 days off that time. They would have had a grateful Chosen One.

But that would not take away his fears, especially when the war began. Nor would it stop Palpatine from having her eliminated. Training to be a Jedi is about overcoming fear, not simply taking it away.

Yeah, good point. No Lucas/Rick plus a decent director could have a reverse effect where people get too optimistic and set their hopes too high.

Not from what I've seen. People are reluctant because of the actors ages and even without Lucas's involvement.

[Simbob4000]

It's not his abilities that they distrusted. It was his emotional connection to his mother. The Council only granted it officially because Obi-wan already told the Council that he was going to train Anakin, irregardless of their decision.

I didn't say it was his abilities they distrusted. I said nothing happen in the movie to make them think he still wasn't dangerous.

They couldn't stop Obi-wan since he didn't have a Padawan and they knew of his promise to Qui-gon. They relented given that he did destroy the Federation ship without any Force training and with the return of the Sith now confirmed, the Council decided to err on the side of caution.

Sure they could stop Obi-Wan, they're the Jedi Council, he answers to them, they could just tell him no. They could have just told Obi-Wan something like: We know of your promise to Qui-Gon, but the entire Jedi Council feels this child is a danger to both us and the Republic. Maybe tell Obi-Wan he shouldn't let his sentimentality cloud his judgment or something.

[Guapo Méndez]

That was Han being clueless, jealous and insecure. He didn't hear their earlier conversation and because he was frozen for a year, he didn't know what was going on. But he knew that Leia was in love with him, based on both her saying it and that she didn't want him to leave.

Yes, but it reinforces the point that Han thought Luke a viable rival for Leia's affections and that it was stupid to make Luke and Leia retroactively brother and sister when they kissed in a non-brotherly fashion. Lucas removed Han shooting first, but never thought about removing this blunder. If they are brother and sister, fine, but that kiss goes a long way to debunk Lucas's "yeah, I planned the whole thing all along" argument.

Previously seen in TESB, when Yoda said that Luke was too old to begin the training.

As the fifth or sixth reason. Age being a hard requirement would have been reason number 1.

A catch-22 situation. The Jedi had stuck their methods for so long, that it was difficult to be flexible.

They still didn't train him. It took Qui-Gon's dying wish to make Obi-Wan his trainer. What kind of method is that? They won't train him because of their age restriction, but there is a "dying wish" exception? Stupid, the former and the later.

That's because he was Qui-gon's responsibility. Hence not taking him back to Tatooine and not keeping him at the Temple. The Council would decide his fate later.

And they send him to a war zone. Criminally irresponsible behavior in part of the Jedi. Makes you think they wanted the boy to die so the issue could be solved once and for all.

That's because it is an internal struggle, not an external one. A Jedi must overcome their fears and attachments, by learning to let go of them. Simply removing Shmi from Tatooine wouldn't take away his fears. Nor would having Leia and Han not be in the Alliance with Luke. Ashoka understood it when Anakin was injured and his life was threatened by those injuries. Not at first, but she did as time went on.

He could have been trained to deal with his emotions in the next ten years. There is no excuse for what the Jedi did: they treated him like shit the second they met him and they just kept him at arm's length for the next decade. And they left his mother to rot while other Jedis could see their families and even a few had special dispensations to have families.

There were just as many characters in the OT as there were in the PT.

-Luke, Leia, Vader, Han, Palpatine, Boba, Lando, Threepio, Artoo, Yoda, Obi-wan, Tarkin, Piett, Jabba, Chewbacca, Ackbar, Wedge, Biggs, Mon Mothma, Owen and Beru.

-Anakin, Obi-wan, Qui-gon, Mace, Yoda, Jango, Palpatine, Threepio, Artoo, Jar Jar, Padme, Shmi, Boba, Chewbacca, Owen, Beru, Cliegg, Watto, Boss Nass, Grevious, Dooku, Maul, Nute and Bail.

There were only two factions, Republic and Separatist with Jedi and Sith in the middle. Same as in the OT with the Alliance versus the Empire.

Yes, but Lucas didn't say he only put 20% of the story he needed to tell in ANH, TESB or ROTJ. The prequels have a lot of filler, admitted by Lucas himself.

Luke wouldn't want to redeem him if he knew earlier. He wouldn't want to be a Jedi, either. He only does because of his confrontation on Cloud City. Obi-wan and Yoda want Vader dead and don't believe that he can come back.

Then you train him in order to defeat the guy who corrupted his father and is currently the reason why the Empire is in such shitty conditions.

You miss the point. Having the power of the Force is a great power, but it is fueled by emotions. Especially negative ones. Once a Jedi begins to feel the Force, they need to learn to control it which was Obi-wan's point to Luke, when he was going to leave. It is also Yoda's warnings about fear, anger and hate rising up quickly when confronted with combat. Anakin and Luke both needed to learn to control that aspect of themselves, but it was a difficult process and when worried about their loved ones, they felt either impotent or over confident. They have the power, but not the wisdom to use it properly. Anakin felt that he could save anyone because of his powers and that's why when he failed the first time, he vowed to not let it happen again. Even if it meant becoming all powerful. Luke felt over confident at first in TESB and then impotent in ROTJ. Same with Anakin in AOTC and in ROTS.

My point is that they had to accept the natural course of events. They had to accept their limitations. Anakin couldn't, but Luke could.

Anakin is a special case: grudgingly accepted into the Jedi, he's too old for training, he is not in control, etc, etc. Don't tell me the Jedi had never, in 1,000 generations, faced such a special needs student and had no provisions for such a case.

This is what happens when you have a crappy plot. You force (heh) the viewers to gauge the strength of the universe you built and they can easily find the mountains of flaws you thought no-one would bother to look for.

But that would not take away his fears, especially when the war began. Nor would it stop Palpatine from having her eliminated. Training to be a Jedi is about overcoming fear, not simply taking it away.

Ah, but that's another story. A much better story that works. Anakin's mother is slain while in custody of Jedi officials? It shows how much of a badass the "phantom menace" is and it can point Anakin in the dark direction. "Jedis couldn't protect her. There must be something, or someone, who can." Cue Palpatine with his brochures...


In matters relevant to the thread: I'm confident the new administration will not make the same mistakes Lucas made and such idiotic plot points won't be allowed to be part of the finished product. Lucas out of the franchise is looks good for the future. He can consult, and welcome to it, but his word being the final word? No, thank you.

[Vibranium]

you could have just said that last part earlier and saved a whole wall of text

[dupersuper]

Yeah, there's no way Luca$ never intended Luke and Leia to not hook up at first. Look at the way she even plants that smooch on him in the first part of Empire.

Empire? The movie that revealed "there is another"? The kiss that was clearly meant to make Han jealous?

[carabas]

Empire? The movie that revealed "there is another"?

That 'other' was not going to be Leia. The search for his sister (some kind of pirate queen or something) was going to be a focus in eps. 7-9. But Lucas had gotten really tired of Star Wars and decided to wrap everything up in Jedi.

[Vibranium]

That 'other' was not going to be Leia. The search for his sister (some kind of pirate queen or something) was going to be a focus in eps. 7-9. But Lucas had gotten really tired of Star Wars and decided to wrap everything up in Jedi.

Space Pirates!!!!

[Guapo Méndez]

you could have just said that last part earlier and saved a whole wall of text

Feel free to put me on ignore.

[Vibranium]

Feel free to put me on ignore.

I don't do that....

and Ive been trying to steer this thread back on topic for some time...not have it descend into a discussion as to why the prequels do or do not suck

[Phil Clark]

...and Ive been trying to steer this thread back on topic for some time...

I would give up on that. It is kind of like trying to steer an asteroid. You can expend a lot of effort, but it just aint gonna change direction.

Or as Blade put it succinctly... "Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill".