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  1. #271
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebon View Post
    I have no idea why anyone would let themselves be so limited. There's not a huge difference between the two companies like, say, in the Sixties or Seventies. With all the cross-pollination of creators these days, both companies produce good work and both produce some terrible ideas.
    Personally, I find I like more of DC's output than I do Marvel's. It hasn't always been the case over the last four decades I've been reading comics, but for me it has been the norm. Still, I've almost always liked at least some of Marvel's output and now is no different. There are some Marvel books I not only buy but thoroughly enjoy.

    Having said that, there is a huge difference between the two companies in pricing policies, particularly with digital. I buy fewer Marvel books because the books are not better, but cost more anyway. Why should I pay $3.99 for a month-old standard Marvel comic when I can find month-old comics from a host of other companies for $1.99? The only reason that would make sense was if the Marvel comic was better, but since most of them aren't any better I won't pay more money for them.

    I'll only pay more if I really want the comic - and Marvel is doing a terrible job of making me really want most of their books.
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

  2. #272
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Both companies have their good and bad, but I see a lot of people that seem to dislike Marvel's 3.99 price tag on 20 page books, and I wanted to discuss this.

    Personally, for me, I'll take a 3.99 issue of Wolverine and The X-Men over a 3.99 issue of Justice League, even if JL has more pages. More pages does not necessarily equal more content. Considering the Marvel comic gives me a free digital copy, it's really no contest.

    Double shipping I'll admit would be off-putting for some, but I think Marvel has a proven model for success in what they've done with Amazing Spider-Man and I think they're expecting similar results with the rest of their line.

    Both companies seem to be targeting an older demographic with more disposable income, and I say this as a person who strictly limits their comic purchases to 5 a month; I really don't think either company cares if a few fans can't afford to follow every book. They're counting on the existing fanbase that can afford it and will continue to do so. The ones that have made the "crossover" model so successful. They don't care so much how many books you read, or how far your dollar stretches; only that they get a certain amount of money from each of us within a given time period.

    Not the best way to grow the industry, perhaps, but this is an industry that thrives on maintaining the status quo.

  3. #273
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    Both companies have their good and bad, but I see a lot of people that seem to dislike Marvel's 3.99 price tag on 20 page books, and I wanted to discuss this.

    Personally, for me, I'll take a 3.99 issue of Wolverine and The X-Men over a 3.99 issue of Justice League, even if JL has more pages. More pages does not necessarily equal more content. Considering the Marvel comic gives me a free digital copy, it's really no contest.
    I don't mind Marvel's $3.99 price tag on print+digital. It's more than I want to spend, but I'll pay it without too much complaint. Both DC's extra pages and Marvel's free digital copy do count as additional content, though I personally prefer DC's approach because it's more unique content. I'm not sure how you can say that more story pages are not more content; they may not be good content, or content you want, but they are always going to be more content.

    What I won't do so happily is pay $3.99 for digital alone. That's a totally different ballgame - especially as that price holds for at least six months - long after Justice League will have dropped to $2.99 and a 20 page book from almost any company you care to name will be $1.99.

    Still, I'd pay $3.99 happily for Marvel books if I liked them more than the competition: I don't, so they aren't worth more to me.
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

  4. #274
    Lord of Dorks Mahzian's Avatar
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    I buy mostly DC books but a few Marvel titles each month, I find it hard to buy Marvel as I find DC books much better value for money, the 3.99 price tag always makes me think twice about a book. I know Marvel offers a free digital version but I don't read digital so it's not really a plus factor for me.

    I will be getting a few more Marvels each month with the new titles coming out though, I'm pretty excited for All New X-men

  5. #275
    Senior Member Coyote2010's Avatar
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    I don't dislike Marvel at all, but anytime I want to read Marvel, it's always the old stuff. Stan and Jack/Ditko make everything else seem like Wings compared to the Beatles.

    I feel like DC takes more chances, and they have the characters I really love.

  6. #276
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    I'm not sure how you can say that more story pages are not more content; they may not be good content, or content you want, but they are always going to be more content.
    Content in the sense that technically there's something there filling up the page, sure. I guess to clarify, in comparing those two specific titles I was directly comparing word content, the amount of panels per page, information conveyed, etc.

    Compare the aforementioned titles, or just any random page of Johns' Justice League to a normal issue of Slott's Spider-Man, or an issue of Hickman's FF. My point was that pages don't determine how much content is really there, or how long a book will take to read. They don't even determine intricacy of art, and an artist like Sean Phillips (not a Marvel guy, I know) can do much more with less space as a storyteller than someone like Jim Lee. So the amount of pages is somewhat arbitrary.

  7. #277
    Senior Member BigT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    I'm mostly digital, though I do buy a few print comics these days. I was totally digital but there are a few Marvel $3.99 books I want to try and I won't pay $3.99 for digital only when I can get print+digital (and sometimes AR) for the same price. Their refusal to drop prices means I'm just that much less likely to try a book, as I can't wait for the price drop on the first issue to see if I like it enough to pay full cover for the second.

    DC, Image, IDW, Dynamite and others do this.... They get more of my money.
    Exactly, as a digital fan they make it much more difficult for me to want to try their comics because they don't price drop early enough. Why should I have to pay the same price for some who is getting physical + a digital copy? I understand if you want to play that game the first month a comic comes out but why not price drop the following? It just seems like they are missing out on a large target market whoread digitally.
    My Current Top 10: The Walking Dead, Wolverine and the X-Men, Aquaman, Batman, Uncanny Avengers, Invincible, Thor: God of Thunder, All New X-Men, Uncanny X-Men and New Avengers

  8. #278
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    Content in the sense that technically there's something there filling up the page, sure. I guess to clarify, in comparing those two specific titles I was directly comparing word content, the amount of panels per page, information conveyed, etc.

    Compare the aforementioned titles, or just any random page of Johns' Justice League to a normal issue of Slott's Spider-Man, or an issue of Hickman's FF. My point was that pages don't determine how much content is really there, or how long a book will take to read. They don't even determine intricacy of art, and an artist like Sean Phillips (not a Marvel guy, I know) can do much more with less space as a storyteller than someone like Jim Lee. So the amount of pages is somewhat arbitrary.
    I'll grant you that in those specific cases, but I wouldn't say that it's necessarily true of all Marvel books. I find Bendis almost always puts less content per page than Johns/Lee, regardless of who is drawing.

    I think for me, the biggest reason to use pages as a rule of thumb (and circumstances always alter cases) is that they are the one thing that's going to be easily quantifiable regardless of the book, writer, or artist. They may not be the best measure, but I think they are the least bad one that can be applied to every book on the stands.
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

  9. #279
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    I'll grant you that in those specific cases, but I wouldn't say that it's necessarily true of all Marvel books. I find Bendis almost always puts less content per page than Johns/Lee, regardless of who is drawing.
    I wouldn't try to say Marvel is better than DC in that regard, or in any regard really; just that page count doesn't necessarily mean you get less bang for your buck. And if amount of content received for your dollar is a problem (not for you specifically, but people who've commented in this thread), DC has just as many issues in that regard, higher page count or no.

    Can't comment on Bendis, because I stay clear of his work for the very reason you just mentioned, amongst others.

    I think for me, the biggest reason to use pages as a rule of thumb (and circumstances always alter cases) is that they are the one thing that's going to be easily quantifiable regardless of the book, writer, or artist. They may not be the best measure, but I think they are the least bad one that can be applied to every book on the stands.
    Good point. Much easier than counting the number of words per book, I'm sure :)

  10. #280
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    I wouldn't try to say Marvel is better than DC in that regard, or in any regard really; just that page count doesn't necessarily mean you get less bang for your buck. And if amount of content received for your dollar is a problem (not for you specifically, but people who've commented in this thread), DC has just as many issues in that regard, higher page count or no.
    What I tend to base it on is what I call "Comic Book Goodness(tm)" which is a wholly subjective measurement that includes everything from the number of pages to the quality of the writing and art, and in some cases even some nostalgia factors. The more "CBG(tm)" I feel I am going to get from a book, the more I am willing to pay for it. All else being equal, this defaults to page count, but that is rarely the rule as all else is rarely equal. A book with a higher page count, and two stories, has the advantage because it has two chances to generate "CBG(tm)," so if I know nothing about the two books otherwise, I'm going to consider page count just because it's more likely I'll get something I like from it.

    I tend to rank DC higher than Marvel because I'm more invested in their universe, and also Marvel has more of a track record of producing books I don't like than DC. Both companies can produce books I love, but the chance I will like a random DC book is higher than with a random Marvel book.
    Last edited by Lemurion; 11-02-2012 at 10:30 PM. Reason: grammar
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

  11. #281
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    What I tend to base it on is what I call "Comic Book Goodness(tm)"
    They seriously need to start putting that on comics covers.

    "Readers agree, this issue of Batman is chock full of C.B.G."

  12. #282
    Junior Member Gothamdet's Avatar
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    It would be nice if DC could put out 2 books a month for some titles as long as the quality doesn't suffer. I think Marvel has a good idea with two ASM's every month.

    Aside from that I find I enjoy more of Marvel's Icon books than the actual Marvel Universe itself. I've just never been a fan of The Avengers, FF, X-men, or Spider-man. The only characters I rarely enjoy are Captain America, Daredevil and rarely Wolverine.

    I also might be one of the few here but I don't like the approach of "genetic mutants" it was a really cheap way to just give hundreds of characters abilities. Just seems to have little to no depth.

  13. #283

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    Personally, for me, I'll take a 3.99 issue of Wolverine and The X-Men over a 3.99 issue of Justice League, even if JL has more pages. More pages does not necessarily equal more content. Considering the Marvel comic gives me a free digital copy, it's really no contest.
    I agree with this. Wolverine and the X-Men might have fewer pages but it has a much higher level of content in those pages than Justice League. I think more happened in the first 3-4 issues of WatX than the entire run of JL. Also, I dislike justifying a $3.99 price with backup stories. Tagging on a backup I may or may not care about is not giving me more bang for my buck. I read half of one of the Shazam backups and that was more than enough for me. So I have to pay $3.99 for an issue of Justice League where I have no interest in 8 pages of the book. That's not a good deal to me. At least with the Marvel $3.99 books now, I can file them away, use my code and just use my tablet for future reading.

  14. #284

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    I don't mind Marvel's $3.99 price tag on print+digital.
    I switched to digital for the purpose of saving space in my apartment. With their print + digital, Marvel's trying to justify a higher price by offering a bonus that I consider a drawback. I don't buy any of DC's books for $3.99, it's more than I want to spend on a comic book, but I do buy JL and Action a month late for $2.99.

    With DC there are more options, if I think a book is worth the higher tag to get it the day it comes out and not risk spoilers I can. If I want to wait a month and buy it more cheaply that's an option. If I want digital or print only that doesn't mean paying extra for something I'm not looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothamdet View Post
    It would be nice if DC could put out 2 books a month for some titles as long as the quality doesn't suffer. I think Marvel has a good idea with two ASM's every month.
    I'm quite happy with DC turning out one book a month on a regular schedule every month. It helps plan finances when I know which books come out in which weeks rather than Marvel where there would be wild swings; a ton of X-titles one week, the next I go into the LCS and there's nothing I was looking for, but I end up picking up something anyway because I'm there.

  15. #285
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    I don't terribly mind the higher cost of following Marvel books right now. Part of the nu52 fallout is that I am much less tolerant of books whose story, tone, or art I am not enjoying. Dropping pretty much all of DC cut my monthly pulls by at least half. The fact that Marvel books are a buck more and some of them double ship does not faze me, especially since there aren't that many titles I follow there either.
    Superhero comic books only become art to the extent that their banal, unrealistic fantasy and garish styles go too far and become interesting. Attempts to ground them in reality can only ruin them.

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