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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harbinger of Apocalypse View Post
    An interesting point there. I mean, technically, the Eternals ARE Marvels version of the New Gods since they are cut from the same mould so to speak but Marvel seems to struggle on what to do with them. They can't be heroes, they can't be villains so what can they be? Plus, DC is attracted as you said to the New Gods because of Darkseid and there is no Darkseid figure amongst the original Eternals. And they got Thanos to be their version of Darkseid even though Thanos was initially more based on Metron before they decided to beef him up. So, with the Darkseid figure is fulfilled in Thanos.
    I think the New Gods and the Eternals are two very different concepts and that writers and readers are too often misled by their apparent similarities into a misinterpretation of the latter. In a nutshell, The Eternals, unlike the New Gods, was never based on a good vs evil scenario: that's why there's no Darkseid and a big reason why Marvel has such a hard time figuring out what to do with it.

    And as you correctly point out, Marvel already has their Darkseid knockoff in Thanos anyway.

  2. #77
    FRENCH Frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    If I were to write a new Eternals series, I'd make it the Highlander of the MU, and I'd place Gilgamesh as the central hero, humanity's hero, a humanity stuck in the middle of a war between the Deviants and the Eternals, with the Forgoten One facing Eternal ofr Deviant to defend the humans. As in the TV series, I'd use history as a background to explore conflicts and relationships, and how they came to be whaat they are in the present. I'd make the Diviants a real danger for Earth and the Eternals, and, of course, not all Eternals would be good. I'd also work on it not being so impossible to kill an Eternal, which would amp the level of danger and suspense for the characters. While there would be some Eternal's internal politics and conflicts explored, the main focus would always be on how all that affects us humans. Ikaris, Sersi, Makkari, Phastos, Thena and others would all be proeminent in the story, but Gilgamesh would have the center stage. Oh, and I'd bring back Sprite.

    Peace
    That would be great(esp. for a tv show). Although - and this is a problem with them being part of a Universe with many heroes - what would make if different for humanity to fear the attack of the Deviants compared to the Skrulls or any other cosmic villains? I think the Eternals would probably work better in their own Universe. As Immortal super-beings they would be mutants, super-heroes, aliens, all of this for people. Sort of like the show Heroes but with more money and super-technology.

    The Eternals as tech Gods work even less for the MU than The New Gods does for DC because the tech Gods' role was already filled by Thor and the Asgardians. These Gods were not just magic barbarians, Kirby shaped their World as a super-advanced society. Even if there was a swashbuckling vibe to them, certainly borrowing from Arthurian and celtic/scandinavian stories about chevalry and fighting dragons-like creatures.

    I think the Eternals more than any other Marvel concept, would benefit the most from a Marvel Crisis-like event to reinvent the whole Marvel Universe so they can be reimagined and given a proper defined role. I think Jack Kirby tried to do that when he left DC where he wanted to create a New Gods-like concept for Marvel, re-told the story of the World and had the Eternals front and center in the advancement of humanity where The Celestials used half involved apes to create perfect cosmic beings, deviant beings and more "normal" beings with a potential for greatness by giving them the possibility of powers with a mutant gene. It should have worked but ultimately I think it was a failiure of a concept since we're still asking ourselves what The Eternals are all about.

    As a concept, I think making them almost perfect beings makes them boring and limited and it's saying to humanity, your potential for greatness doesn't matter because we already have perfect beings. The Deviants are even worse because they are evil because they are ugly, basically. I think for a big revamp something like the Eternals would have to be altered, maybe even tied to mutation. Forget about this perfect pantheon, have them being a immortal race and even every so often a birth occurs with a new immortal being, a new freak of nature if you will coming into this Earth and everytime it's an event. Maybe mutants or the whole concept of mutants in the MU could be reinvented this way too. You could have Apocalypse as the ideal candidate at this crossroad between mutants and Eternals since he's an immortal yet cannot be considered perfect and good-looking. He would be the ideal Eternal for a new beginning, rethinking what this concept means. Wich would be as mutations, freaks of nature and the next step of human evolution. Then have different organization trying to either kill these mutations or manipulate or control them.

    Another idea and it came to me when I was reading all the 2001 stuff with Kirby and Machine Man that since The Asgardians are the ultimate expression of tech Gods in the MU, the Eternals could be artificial beings, super-cyborgs created by this super-advanced society(Celestials) to protect humanity.
    Legato - Frank, Calm Down Your Nerd Rage!

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    That would be great(esp. for a tv show). Although - and this is a problem with them being part of a Universe with many heroes - what would make if different for humanity to fear the attack of the Deviants compared to the Skrulls or any other cosmic villains? I think the Eternals would probably work better in their own Universe. As Immortal super-beings they would be mutants, super-heroes, aliens, all of this for people. Sort of like the show Heroes but with more money and super-technology.

    The Eternals as tech Gods work even less for the MU than The New Gods does for DC because the tech Gods' role was already filled by Thor and the Asgardians. These Gods were not just magic barbarians, Kirby shaped their World as a super-advanced society. Even if there was a swashbuckling vibe to them, certainly borrowing from Arthurian and celtic/scandinavian stories about chevalry and fighting dragons-like creatures.

    I think the Eternals more than any other Marvel concept, would benefit the most from a Marvel Crisis-like event to reinvent the whole Marvel Universe so they can be reimagined and given a proper defined role. I think Jack Kirby tried to do that when he left DC where he wanted to create a New Gods-like concept for Marvel, re-told the story of the World and had the Eternals front and center in the advancement of humanity where The Celestials used half involved apes to create perfect cosmic beings, deviant beings and more "normal" beings with a potential for greatness by giving them the possibility of powers with a mutant gene. It should have worked but ultimately I think it was a failiure of a concept since we're still asking ourselves what The Eternals are all about.
    It's only a failure within the MU and only because the ideas don't make sense in that limited context. In their own series they made perfect sense.

    As a concept, I think making them almost perfect beings makes them boring and limited and it's saying to humanity, your potential for greatness doesn't matter because we already have perfect beings. The Deviants are even worse because they are evil because they are ugly, basically. I think for a big revamp something like the Eternals would have to be altered, maybe even tied to mutation. Forget about this perfect pantheon, have them being a immortal race and even every so often a birth occurs with a new immortal being, a new freak of nature if you will coming into this Earth and everytime it's an event. Maybe mutants or the whole concept of mutants in the MU could be reinvented this way too. You could have Apocalypse as the ideal candidate at this crossroad between mutants and Eternals since he's an immortal yet cannot be considered perfect and good-looking. He would be the ideal Eternal for a new beginning, rethinking what this concept means. Wich would be as mutations, freaks of nature and the next step of human evolution. Then have different organization trying to either kill these mutations or manipulate or control them.
    Tying them to the MU's mutant characters wouldn't work any better than tying them to the MU's Titanians did, as far as I can see. There's no connection there and trying to construct one artificially is never going to provide an answer to Marvel's puzzle of what to do with them.

    As for the Eternals being perfectly good and the Deviants perfectly evil, that isn't the case at all, if you read the original story. One of the most important themes of that series was how the Eternals had at least one very important flaw: and that was precisely their tendency to to see the Deviants as unremittingly evil and ugly (and at times perhaps even evil because they were ugly and vica versa). This was the point, or one of them, of the whole Thena/Reject/Karkas story, which I think would have become integral to how the series unfolded in the future if it hadn't been cancelled.

    Another idea and it came to me when I was reading all the 2001 stuff with Kirby and Machine Man that since The Asgardians are the ultimate expression of tech Gods in the MU, the Eternals could be artificial beings, super-cyborgs created by this super-advanced society(Celestials) to protect humanity.
    Well, that's more or less how Gaiman wrote them in his miniseries, was it not? I don't think it was a good idea: knowing how superhero comics tend to play out, this would have left the door open to building up earth's superheroes by showing how their "human spirit" was superior to the artificially constructed Eternals' inability to act against their programming. Superhero writers find openings like that irresistible - so much so that they'll make those openings for themselves if they aren't already there (see how Orion and Darkseid tend to be written in JLA/Superman/Batman comics). It would probably b lots of fun for, say, Iron Man fans to read, but not much good for the Eternals.

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_hyde2120 View Post
    All It would take Is a great creative team
    I agree (although thats not a guarentee but it will at least get it noticed). Hickman & Quietly for sure. Maybe reunite Paul Jenkins and Jae Lee. Their work on Inhumans made me care about those characters for the first time.

    I'm no Eternals expert by any means so forgive me if what I say is wrong, been done or is blasphemous. IMHO, There are just too many of them and they are way too powerful to maintain a montly or exist within 616 Marvel. That said, take them out of 616 and no one will care. So maybe they could have a catastrophic event, like the celestials decide they are no longer needed, kill off a whole lot of them and lessen the powers of the rest and then watch them make their way as they try and incorporate themselves into human society. Like I said, my Eternals knowledge is limited so this may be a dumb suggestion but I think making them less godlike makes them more relatable even if it takes away some of what makes them special.
    Last edited by Dark Phoenix; 11-20-2012 at 01:40 PM.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Phoenix View Post
    I agree (although thats not a guarentee but it will at least get it noticed). Hickman & Quietly for sure. Maybe reunite Paul Jenkins and Jae Lee. Their work on Inhumans made me care about those characters for the first time.

    I'm no Eternals expert by any means so forgive me if what I say is wrong, been done or is blasphemous. IMHO, There are just too many of them and they are way too powerful to maintain a montly or exist within 616 Marvel. That said, take them out of 616 and no one will care. So maybe they could have a catastrophic event, like the celestials decide they are no longer needed, kill off a whole lot of them and lessen the powers of the rest and then watch them make their way as they try and incorporate themselves into human society. Like I said, my Eternals knowledge is limited so this may be a dumb suggestion but I think making them less godlike makes them more relatable even if it takes away some of what makes them special.
    And the surivivors wages a war against another while trying to hide in humanity. It's funny but I keep going back to the Highlander for them, it would work pretty well, I think.
    Legato - Frank, Calm Down Your Nerd Rage!

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphamlore View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but Gaiman and Romita Jr. on Eternals is easily the greatest mainstream comics missed opportunity the past decade. Okay is not good enough for a writer who can basically create masterpieces on demand.
    Neil Gaiman with a better artist and the freedom to place the Eternals in their own universe would've been amazing. They just don't work in the mainstream Marvel Universe.

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