How the Dark Knight Could Have Been Better (SPOILERS!!!)

[Kensei]

Bane had to die in TDKR though because otherwise people would have been all like "sequel?". I meant it was like the comics in that after he breaks Batman and takes over the city, it's someone else who then comes along and actually defeats him in a somewhat anti-climatic way.

Yeah, I can see that. But Azrael's defeat of Bane after a prolonged fight wasn't nearly as anti-climactic as the "Whoa, where'd you come from?" and then DEAD in one second we got with Catwoman. And that's not a complaint. I think Bane deserved an anti-climactic death in TDKR, just as (as I've written before) Osama Bin Laden did in real life.

[Mat001]

Bane was already beaten. Catwoman just killed him because she doesn't have the same compunction that Bruce does about killing. The climax for Bane's role was already done and over with. Azrael not killing Bane was the start of his fall from grace.

[ispacehead]

Azrael not killing Bane was the start of his fall from grace.

Azrael not killing Bane seemed more to me like him resisting his demons for the moment, despite being hardwired to kill.

[Mat001]

But it was after that that Jean-Paul began seeing both his father and St. Dumas. Hence it was the start of his downfall because their constant presence began to drive him mad and is why he didn't try to save Abattoir.

[yaseen101]

But it was after that that Jean-Paul began seeing both his father and St. Dumas. Hence it was the start of his downfall because their constant presence began to drive him mad and is why he didn't try to save Abattoir.

Not really. The system was always haunting him. That's why he re-designed the Bat-suit to take on Bane. It just escalated from wanting to recklessly take on Bane head, upgrading the gloves to upgrading the whole suit. His refusal to kill Bane was just one brief respite before he started sliding down the slope again.

[Mat001]

There's a difference between redesigning the suit and having visions telling him to kill or not to kill.

[yaseen101]

There's a difference between redesigning the suit and having visions telling him to kill or not to kill.

Yeah, but redesigning the suit was part of his fall that eventually lead to the visions. They were the chain of the events and not killing Bane was break, that's what I was getting at with my initial post.

[Kensei]

Would like to turn this thread back toward its original question by offering some of the things I imagined when we first heard that "The Dark Knight Rises" was going to be made but before we knew anything about it. I don't know if any of them would have made it "better," but here they are.

First, I imagined a scene with Gordon visiting Bruce (much like Blake did in the film), saying, "Mr. Wayne, the task force assigned to track down the Batman has always assumed that with the tech he displays he's either someone with money or someone with a wealthy benefactor. Either way, you were going to be on the suspect list. Then there's the factor of motive. He's likely to be someone who's been effected by crime. And after all these years of eliminating suspects, Mr. Wayne, I gotta tell you- today, you are the list. So... is there anything you want to tell me?" And after the required dramatic pause, Bruce would say, "If there were, what would it mean?" And Gordon would explain that if there were, they had an agreement that would not change, leading Bruce to say, "Well then, Commissioner, I'll do you one better than telling you something. I'd like to show you something." Then he'd take Gordon down into the Batcave and show him everything, and just for a moment Gordon would act very nervous until he realized he was being made a full partner, and then he'd say, "Thank God, I was just starting to wonder if no one was ever going to see me again."

Either that, or there'd be a scene near the end where Batman would say to Gordon, "Do you want to know who I am? You've earned it." And after careful consideration, Gordon would decline, but Batman would make it a standing offer.

I also imagined a Nolan version of Vickie Vale, a reporter obsessed with getting an interview with Batman, and a scene inspired by Superman/Christopher Reeve showing up at Lois Lane/Margot Kidder's apartment for that purpose, though of a much darker theme of course. Christian Bale growling, "You wanted to talk to me. Here I am."

Then there was the fact that so many fans were expecting the Riddler. I bought into it like many of us did, and I thought that if they were going to use him that in order to make him fit into the Nolanverse he should be portrayed much like the Zodiac killer from real life. Both characters wore costumes and sent clues to taunt the authorities. Seriously, I thought that could have had amazing potential.

I also made up my mind that if TDKR didn't include Catwoman that I would have been extremely let down, and in that I was rewarded. In TDK, when Fox said "Should do fine against cats," in spite of everything that's been said I don't buy for a second that that wasn't an alert that Catwoman was coming next.

[Slugger]

Would like to turn this thread back toward its original question by offering some of the things I imagined when we first heard that "The Dark Knight Rises" was going to be made but before we knew anything about it. I don't know if any of them would have made it "better," but here they are.

First, I imagined a scene with Gordon visiting Bruce (much like Blake did in the film), saying, "Mr. Wayne, the task force assigned to track down the Batman has always assumed that with the tech he displays he's either someone with money or someone with a wealthy benefactor. Either way, you were going to be on the suspect list. Then there's the factor of motive. He's likely to be someone who's been effected by crime. And after all these years of eliminating suspects, Mr. Wayne, I gotta tell you- today, you are the list. So... is there anything you want to tell me?" And after the required dramatic pause, Bruce would say, "If there were, what would it mean?" And Gordon would explain that if there were, they had an agreement that would not change, leading Bruce to say, "Well then, Commissioner, I'll do you one better than telling you something. I'd like to show you something." Then he'd take Gordon down into the Batcave and show him everything, and just for a moment Gordon would act very nervous until he realized he was being made a full partner, and then he'd say, "Thank God, I was just starting to wonder if no one was ever going to see me again."

Either that, or there'd be a scene near the end where Batman would say to Gordon, "Do you want to know who I am? You've earned it." And after careful consideration, Gordon would decline, but Batman would make it a standing offer.

I also imagined a Nolan version of Vickie Vale, a reporter obsessed with getting an interview with Batman, and a scene inspired by Superman/Christopher Reeve showing up at Lois Lane/Margot Kidder's apartment for that purpose, though of a much darker theme of course. Christian Bale growling, "You wanted to talk to me. Here I am."

Then there was the fact that so many fans were expecting the Riddler. I bought into it like many of us did, and I thought that if they were going to use him that in order to make him fit into the Nolanverse he should be portrayed much like the Zodiac killer from real life. Both characters wore costumes and sent clues to taunt the authorities. Seriously, I thought that could have had amazing potential.

I also made up my mind that if TDKR didn't include Catwoman that I would have been extremely let down, and in that I was rewarded. In TDK, when Fox said "Should do fine against cats," in spite of everything that's been said I don't buy for a second that that wasn't an alert that Catwoman was coming next.

I'm glad you didn't write it. You think this would have made it better? That doesn't really change the plot at all.

[Kensei]

I'm glad you didn't write it. You think this would have made it better? That doesn't really change the plot at all.

I didn't say it would have made it better. They were just random thoughts I had before I knew anything at all about the film. And by the way I'm glad I didn't write it too, because that's not a talent I possess.

[The Duke]

Woo, I wanna know what type of beauty you see everyday before you make fun of Gyllenhaal.

Dana Perino.

I didn't realise what was a throw away comment would start a conflagration, I apologise for not getting back here sooner.

As I am wont to say to people who disagree, my opinion is my opinion and your opinion is just as valid as mine.