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  1. #556
    Veteran Member airdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadXMan View Post
    Tell that to Emma in AA
    Juston's Sentinel indeed attacked Emma when she just arrived at the Avengers Academy. And then, it tried to hurt Emma again in front of all students. Was Juston attacked by Emma at the time? The answer clearly is NO. Emma just tried to remove Juston, who went to bananas then, from the Sentinel using the Phoenix Force. But the Sentinel assaulted her directly. It's obviously that this Sentinel was not able to differentiate the aggressive behaviors from the normal behaviors very well. It's highly possible that this robot would consider people's normal behaviors as threats and tried to attack them. That's why it was dangerous and uncontrollable. Even in such a case, Emma gave up smashing the Sentinel, just want to remodel it and remove its mutant-hunting program creating a new persona for it, but Juston simply refused, so Emma had no choice but melting its CPU. Did Emma do something wrong there? And the funny thing here was, Juston himself had already reprogrammed the Sentinel before.
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  2. #557
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    If if those bigots weren't using Sentinals they'd just be using something else. Would it be somehow better if they used Guardsmen armor to kill mutants instead? Let's say they do... should the government stop producing Guardsmen armor? What if they use machine guns to try and kill mutants? Should they be banned as well?

    My point is the Sentinals aren't actually the problem. Just as ropes and bed sheets aren't. Any weapon in theory can be an instrument of good, just as it can be used as in instrument of "evil." Take away Sentinals and people will just use something else, and overtime that will become the symbol instead.
    The sentinels causes justified fear in innocent people just by their existence, That makes them a terror weapon. You might dismiss symbols but they have real power in reality, that is why the Bundesbank will never wear black uniforms and the Shutlz Staffel will never be reformed no matter what the intent is. the very existence of the Sentinels is a mental and emotional attack on every mutant.
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  3. #558
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SayOcean View Post
    Well I've seen bed sheets and rope being used in a good way, I've never seen the sentinels being used as anything but oppressing mutants justons sentinel still being weirdly anti mutant.

    Would you be inclined to argue about human gas chambers, or concentration camps
    The Avengers have a history, unfortunately, of some inadvertant and/or unintentional oppression, particularly with the YOUTH.

    They tried to shut down the Young Avengers rather than train them properly.
    They forced many super powered youngsters into joining the Initiative.
    Then they created an "Academy" to deter potential villains -- through subterfuge.

    They really do have a bit of a "good intentioned fluck ups" streak.
    I won't even comment on their handling of the mutant population, as that tends to ignite a whole other fire of aggression.
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  4. #559
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SayOcean View Post
    Well I've seen bed sheets and rope being used in a good way, I've never seen the sentinels being used as anything but oppressing mutants justons sentinel still being weirdly anti mutant.

    Would you be inclined to argue about human gas chambers, or concentration camps
    Practical Sentinal usage is rare... but it does exist. Wolverine loaded some from SHIELD and used them against the Hand for example.

    And they tried using Sentinals against Kang, though sadly it didn't work out too well.

    And Justins Sentinel is working out pretty well. He proved no threat to the mutants at the Academy. Heck, some of them even ended up standing by him in the end. And I think that tells you something. Because Justins Sentinel acted more the most part in an acceptable manner, the mutants at the Academy were able to accept him. It understandably wouldn't easy and it wasn't overnight... but you got to the point where they literally defended it.

  5. #560
    Agent of SHIELD/SWORD marvelprince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    If if those bigots weren't using Sentinals they'd just be using something else. Would it be somehow better if they used Guardsmen armor to kill mutants instead? Let's say they do... should the government stop producing Guardsmen armor? What if they use machine guns to try and kill mutants? Should they be banned as well?

    My point is the Sentinals aren't actually the problem. Just as ropes and bed sheets aren't. Any weapon in theory can be an instrument of good, just as it can be used as in instrument of "evil." Take away Sentinals and people will just use something else, and overtime that will become the symbol instead.
    Normally I find myself agreeing with everything you say XPac, but I can't believe you're condoning the use of sentinels. Think of the number of mutant lives lost due to them. Millions and millions gone. Yes, they may be tools that are not intrinsically evil but they're so tied in with misery and suffering of mutantkind that they're synonymous with oppression and hatred of them. Its like the swastika, despite being a harmless image what its tied to is so horrible that its considered offensive to use it these days. They deserve nothing more than to be melted into slag.

  6. #561
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marvelprince View Post
    Normally I find myself agreeing with everything you say XPac, but I can't believe you're condoning the use of sentinels. Think of the number of mutant lives lost due to them. Millions and millions gone. Yes, they may be tools that are not intrinsically evil but they're so tied in with misery and suffering of mutantkind that they're synonymous with oppression and hatred of them. Its like the swastika, despite being a harmless image what its tied to is so horrible that its considered offensive to use it these days. They deserve nothing more than to be melted into slag.
    I concede they can be offensive... I just don't believe in every scenario that should be a priority.

    The government has the things lying around anyways, and the US tax payers have likely spent billions of dollars desiging and creating them. If they have them, and they can be used to save lives, then you use them. I have said it before and I'll say it again, I'll take an offended mutant over dead body anyways.

    And if you're of the belief that they should be destroyed, isn't that all the more reason to use them? Odds are many will be destroyed anyways at at least that way they're doing some good in the process. To me that's far more practical than just letting them sit around collecting dust, or spending the time and resources to destroy something that's likely already cost billions of dollars. Use the things to try and do some good, and if they're destroyed in the process then they're destroyed.

  7. #562

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    How are we defining Sentinals?

    If we are defining them as mutant-hunting robots with a certain look then they should be banned as offensive.

    If we are defining them as giant robots that kill enemies of thier states (like Tanks) then they won't be banned as long as they don't look like the old Sentinals, don't have the same intended purpose and good at what they do. I say this because there are several things that should be banned if we use the latter but aren't because they too useful. Most banned things aren't useful beyond spreading fear.

  8. #563
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    The sentinels have never done a whole lotta good one kids pet does not erase the millions of people these machines have slaughter...a vote for sentinels is support for the swastika, which by the look of the current main avengers book shouldn't surprise anyone

  9. #564
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SayOcean View Post
    The sentinels have never done a whole lotta good one kids pet does not erase the millions of people these machines have slaughter...a vote for sentinels is support for the swastika, which by the look of the current main avengers book shouldn't surprise anyone
    Hmm... I wonder if this qualifies as an example of Godwins law.

  10. #565
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Practical Sentinal usage is rare... but it does exist. Wolverine loaded some from SHIELD and used them against the Hand for example.

    And they tried using Sentinals against Kang, though sadly it didn't work out too well.

    And Justins Sentinel is working out pretty well. He proved no threat to the mutants at the Academy. Heck, some of them even ended up standing by him in the end. And I think that tells you something. Because Justins Sentinel acted more the most part in an acceptable manner, the mutants at the Academy were able to accept him. It understandably wouldn't easy and it wasn't overnight... but you got to the point where they literally defended it.
    the Sentinel at the AA tried to murder someone
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  11. #566
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Hmm... I wonder if this qualifies as an example of Godwins law.
    in this case an appropriate use
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  12. #567
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    the Sentinel at the AA tried to murder someone
    Eh... Emma was going there to destroy it.

    I'll say again, I think Justin's Sentinal for the most part has worked out pretty well. There are plenty of X-Men who have murdered more mutants (or people in general) than it. Even the mutants at AA ended up having it's back. To me that makes a pretty strong statement.

  13. #568
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    in this case an appropriate use
    So that means the students and faculty at the Avengers Academy are suddenly supporting the swastika? Eh... to me that's a stretch.

  14. #569

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    So that means the students and faculty at the Avengers Academy are suddenly supporting the swastika? Eh... to me that's a stretch.
    Again it depends on how one define's sentinel and if that logics holds up that mean at the end of grant morrison's run the X-men does too since they have a sentinel on thier team.

  15. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Hmm... I wonder if this qualifies as an example of Godwins law.
    no, it is appropriate in this case. you are either being stubborn on your point or willfully ignorant. either way, i don't seriously believe you subscribe to the offensive things you have been posting for the past several pages, but there it is.

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