AvX Consequences #4 *Spoilers*

[XPac]

Well we saw them looking at the monitors immediately after he drew that on the floor via the monitors and only Wolverine said that he was up to something.

If AvX has shown us anything it's that Steve Rogers IQ drops about 50 points from time to time.

They weren't looking at him immediately after he draw that symbol. After the symbol he was lying on the bed in a wife beater. On the screen, he's sitting up wearing the orange prison shirt.

If you Gillen is writing Steve as an idiot, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that too. I think to his credit, he's actually handled a lot of these characters pretty well. Steve included.

[ExodusCloak]

They weren't looking at him immediately after he draw that symbol. After the symbol he was lying on the bed in a wife beater. On the screen, he's sitting up wearing the orange prison shirt.

If you Gillen is writing Steve as an idiot, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that too. I think to his credit, he's actually handled a lot of these characters pretty well. Steve included.

Look at it this way, if he wasn't being monitored he wouldn't have to be subtle. He wasted no time writing words the first time. When Magneto replies "Hello Scott" he just crossed out the Scott part. Then when asked if he wants to be broken out...he leaves the O and changes the Y to an N. And when he was writing the NOW bit I'd gather they'll be alerted to the intrusion. Probably why Magik didn't come by herself.

Also Marvel NOW...I get it.

[DeadXMan]

Please elaborate then. Why would sentinels be preferable to iron men? Why would sentinels be a good idea? I would LOVE for you to tell me.

It's a stupid, stupid, STUPID idea.

all I am getting is:

[XPac]

Look at it this way, if he wasn't being monitored he wouldn't have to be subtle. He wasted no time writing words the first time. When Magneto replies "Hello Scott" he just crossed out the Scott part. Then when asked if he wants to be broken out...he leaves the O and changes the Y to an N. And when he was writing the NOW bit I'd gather they'll be alerted to the intrusion. Probably why Magik didn't come by herself.

Also Marvel NOW...I get it.

He's clearly being monitored to some degree, because Cap is watching a video of him at some point. If Wolverines meeting with Steve is occuring concurrently with Scott writing that symbol (and we don't know for a fact that it is), then Steve's video clearly isn't live. Whick likely implies he was just requesting tapes.

I'm just arguing that's not proof that Steve is monitoring him 24/7. So to make that unproven assumption, then turn around and criticize Steve for not knowing everything that's going on IMO isn't entirely fair.

I think this sort of shows just how good a job Gillen is doing with his book. It's to the point where the Cap bashers have to make stuff up that Gillen didn't put in the actual book, or in some cases flat out ignore what Gillen wrote (like Cap stating the prison wasn't Caps call) to bash the character. Gillen is actually handling the characters reasonably well, and that has the unfortunate effect of making it tough to bash the characters that some posters aren't rooting for.

[AcesX1X]

All I am saying is that Sentinals aren't actually the problem.

good grief. can't wait for you to tell us how white hooded robes and nooses hanging from trees arent a problem either. can't wait for your practical needs solutions then.

[XPac]

good grief. can't wait for you to tell us how white hooded robes and nooses hanging from trees arent a problem either. can't wait for your practical needs solutions then.

If someone were to suggest that white hooded robes should be banned to lessen bigotry, I'd pretty much make the same arguement. White hooded robes aren't the problem either.

I don't see Steve going to Moon Knight and suggesting he change his outfit as part of their plane to lessen racism anytime soon.

As far as nooses go... nooses are essentially rope. Does the fact that some people choose to misuse rope in that manner mean the world should stop producing rope? IMO no. Rope can be handy stuff.

[AcesX1X]

If someone were to suggest that white hooded robes should be banned to lessen bigotry, I'd pretty much make the same arguement. White hooded robes aren't the problem either.

I don't see Steve going to Moon Knight and suggesting he change his outfit as part of their plane to lessen racism anytime soon.

As far as nooses go... nooses are essentially rope. Does the fact that some people choose to misuse rope in that manner mean the world should stop producing rope? IMO no. Rope can be handy stuff.

so are nuts and bolts and lasers and everything else that sentinels are made of. that's not the point.

sure rope is handy. but reality-check, when u hang ropes from trees in nooses the public generally gets upset and for good reason. moreso when u put some effigy hanging from it.

the same concept applies with sentinels. it is what they REPRESENT that makes them offensive.

and if steve gave moon knight a fiery cross to carry around then we would have serious problems.

[SayOcean]

The avengers fans would looooove it

[finfangfool]

Never mind, bad link.

[gregyo]

Steve doesn't appear to see Sentinals as F-15 because based on his statements about it, he's worried about them too.

I think Stark see's them as F-15 though, and obviously based on my previous posts I think I do as well. As I said, a weapon is a weapon. A gun can be used against all meta's just as easily as a Sentinal. Doesn't mean I think because they have the potential to be harmful, it means we shouldn't have guns. I get that there are issues for symbolism, but I don't think that outweights the potential good something can do. I really don't. If I'm anyone... even a mutant, and I'm about to be killed by an invading army of skrulls, I don't care whether or not my life is saved by a Sentinal as long as it's saved. I don't care if the lives of my mother or brother or father or friends are saved by a Sentinal or not, as long as they are saved. What I care about is that it's something that actually works.

Klan uniforms are only bedsheets, that doesn't mean it's acceptable for them to be worn everywhere.

But hey, what matters is who's UNDER the bedsheet and not the bedsheet itself, right?

Just because people have done bad things in those bedsheets doesn't outweigh the potential comfort that could come from those bedsheets, right?

[XPac]

so are nuts and bolts and lasers and everything else that sentinels are made of. that's not the point.

sure rope is handy. but reality-check, when u hang ropes from trees in nooses the public generally gets upset and for good reason. moreso when u put some effigy hanging from it.

the same concept applies with sentinels. it is what they REPRESENT that makes them offensive.

and if steve gave moon knight a fiery cross to carry around then we would have serious problems.

Again, the issue with ropes is how they are used. If they're used to unlawfully kill people than obviously that's a problem... but that doesn't mean rope shouldn't be used. It simply means rope should be used in a more responsible manner. If rope can be used to save lives and make life better, then IMO at least the fact that it can be used in an unlawful manner doesn't automatically mean it shouldn't be used at all.

Rope like Sentinals is ultimately neither good or bad. It just is. How it's used is really is the issue.

And if Moon Knight wielding a fiery cross actually ended up saving lives somehow, then I'd be okay with him wielding a fiery cross.

[XPac]

Klan uniforms are only bedsheets, that doesn't mean it's acceptable for them to be worn everywhere.

But hey, what matters is who's UNDER the bedsheet and not the bedsheet itself, right?

Just because people have done bad things in those bedsheets doesn't outweigh the potential comfort that could come from those bedsheets, right?

It's why we can still buy bed sheets at Macys. Because the government (wisely IMO) decided that that just because some people use bed sheets in a questionable manner doesn't mean bed sheets shouldn't be made available to anyone who wants them. I have bed sheets on my beds. I'm willing to wager the good percentage of americans do as well, without putting them on and burning crosses on people's lawns at night.

Plain and simple, bed sheets aren't the problem.

[trutrutru]

We don't know for sure how aggresive Steve was or wasn't in this case. All we know is that it wasn't his decision... which is understandable since Steve as far as we know isn't the director of the federal bureau of prisons in his spare time as far as we know.

I think in a potential crisis situation, like the Phoenix coming to earth, Steve's got a lot more power to do whatever the heck he wants. But when it's not an emergency situation, Steve has to deal with the same stuff any other bureaucrat has to deal with. Unless he can play the "world is going to end" card, he can't do whatever the heck he wants, and that's probably a GOOD thing. You don't want Steve or anyone else for that matter to be able trample over the chain of command or the inherent checks and balances in government at their whim. They exist for a reason.

and what of other villians captain america, avengers and shield deal with....the ones' that end up in shield holding cells....what gets them there that couldnt be done with cyclops?

[davew128]

and what of other villians captain america, avengers and shield deal with....the ones' that end up in shield holding cells....what gets them there that couldnt be done with cyclops?

IIRC, places like the Vault and the Raft were government and not SHIELD run facilities.

[XPac]

and what of other villians captain america, avengers and shield deal with....the ones' that end up in shield holding cells....what gets them there that couldnt be done with cyclops?

There were instances where we've SHIELD hold prisoners flat out unlawfully (ie without proper due process). That sort of thing was mentioned at the start of Bendis New Avengers run. I cases like that where SHIELD wanted to hold people without due process, they likely just do whatever they want secretly, which obviously has the advantage of not being held accountable by the federal bureau of prisons. But obviously Steve's not going to that unless it's some sort of emergy situation.

In most cases, I suspect it's a simple matter of the powers that be deciding that metahuman criminals are kept at the Raft or the Vault. That's likely the norm. Presumably that's where Emma is.

In the case of Scott, they decided to keep him with the general populace rather than isolating him on one if their meta human facilities. Why exactly they chose to do that is a matter of speculation. Scott presented his own theories on the matter. Logan did suggest they move him, but as Steve clearly stated it wasn't his decision.

I suppose the upside is now that Scott has made the decision to escape (or at least that's what I presume he did), it's going to be much much easier.