AvX Consequences #4 *Spoilers*

[gregyo]

Jack got killed because Scott kick those guys asses the issue before. That was retibution.

Seriouly watch all but the last season of Oz!

And the first time? When Scott was forced to kick the asses in question? Was that retribution as well?

[quillero]

Common sense doesn't do a whole lot when it's not Steve's decision either way.

That's why what Gillen wrote makes sense. He's able to tell the story he wants with Scott without throwing Steve under the bus to do it by simply applying the restrictions on Steve that he realistically would have in this situation. I realize Gillen actually actually writing people in-character and in realistic situations somewhat hinders people's ability to bash the character, but Gillen likely just doesn't have the same Cap bashing agenda that some readers seem to. Which probably makes him the write person for the job.

he only opposes the government when his rights to be a vigilante are in peril
otherwise, the truest of lapdogs
what a hero

[DeadXMan]

he might have good intentions
but he's either clueless or doesn't give enough of a shit

Yeah it not like Cap didn't get the US to back off utopia after he got in charge and convinced the president to resend the SHRA (which Tony Siad incorperated theMRA during CW) and give Scott the highest medal that a cilivlan can recive. Only for Scott to chuck it into the ocean the second Cap turn his back. Then abandon the avengers during a fight with fim fam fom, then invade the US, Shoots Steve in the back and tries kidnap Wanda in order put her in a Kangaroo court where she would be burned at the stake....

oh wait that did happen.

[gregyo]

Yeah it not like Cap didn't get the US to back off utopia after he got in charge and convinced the president to resend the SHRA (which Tony Siad incorperated theMRA during CW) and give Scott the highest medal that a cilivlan can recive. Only for Scott to chuck it into the ocean the second Cap turn his back. Then abandon the avengers during a fight with fim fam fom, then invade the US, Shoots Steve in the back and tries kidnap Wanda in order put her in a Kangaroo court where she would be burned at the stake....

oh wait that did happen.

TECHINICALLY, the Fin Fang Foom thing happened WELL after the Wanda thing. Not that it matters, none of what you said matches the comics.

[quillero]

Yeah it not like Cap didn't get the US to back off utopia after he got in charge and convinced the president to resend the SHRA (which Tony Siad incorperated theMRA during CW) and give Scott the highest medal that a cilivlan can recive. Only for Scott to chuck it into the ocean the second Cap turn his back. Then abandon the avengers during a fight with fim fam fom, then invade the US, Shoots Steve in the back and tries kidnap Wanda in order put her in a Kangaroo court where she would be burned at the stake....

oh wait that did happen.

if he could then why won't he try to keep mutant inmates alive now?

TECHINICALLY, the Fin Fang Foom thing happened WELL after the Wanda thing. Not that it matters, none of what you said matches the comics.

lol
you understood all of that?

[XPac]

he only opposes the government when his rights to be a vigilante are in peril
otherwise, the truest of lapdogs
what a hero

To be precise, he opposed government when they decided take him in for not going along with the SHRA months before the law even passed. Hill didn't exactly leave Steve a whole lot of choice.

Again, I don't recall the X-Men coming to Steve's aid when he was arrested at the end of Civil War. And I'm frankly fine with that too.

[quillero]

To be precise, he opposed government when they decided take him in for not going along with the SHRA months before the law even passed. Hill didn't exactly leave Steve a whole lot of choice.

Again, I don't recall the X-Men coming to Steve's aid when he was arrested at the end of Civil War. And I'm frankly fine with that too.

we're talking about civilian lives here so i don't see why cw is brought up

[XPac]

we're talking about civilian lives here so i don't see why cw is brought up

Funny statement from a guy that himself refered to Civil War in the post I was responding to. Unless "he only opposes the government when his rights to be a vigilante are in peril" was discussing something other than Civil War.

[quillero]

Funny statement from a guy that himself refered to Civil War in the post I was responding to. Unless "he only opposes the government when his rights to be a vigilante are in peril" was discussing something other than Civil War.

the cap in jail part
it has nothing to do with mutants like jake being set up to die

[XPac]

the cap in jail part
it has nothing to do with mutants like jake being set up to die

And there's a very real possibility that Steve might not even know that guy even exists. Someone trying to kill Scott is one thing. But the death of some guy that no one has even heard of might not even come close to making it to Caps desk. It's not like Steve is an employee of the federal bureau of prisons... and this sort of thing could conceivably be happening in prisons (both real and in comics) everyday.

Bottom line is we don't know exactly what Steve knows. Especially over something that literally JUST happened in an area of government that Steve as stated in the book has no jurisdiction over. So I think its more than fair to say the degree of criticism he's getting here is a tad on the premature side.

[quillero]

And there's a very real possibility that Steve might not even know that guy even exists. Someone trying to kill Scott is one thing. But the death of some guy that no one has even heard of might not even come close to making it to Caps desk. It's not like Steve is an employee of the federal bureau of prisons... and this sort of thing could conceivably be happening in prisons (both real and in comics) everyday.

Bottom line is we don't know exactly what Steve knows. Especially over something that literally JUST happened in an area of government that Steve as stated in the book has no jurisdiction over. So I think its more than fair to say the degree of criticism he's getting here is a tad on the premature side.

he knows mutants are being taken to private prisons
he knows anti-mutant sentiments are high
no wonder scott decides to escape
his trust on cap helping mutantkind was a mistake

again, he might mean well
i'm sure he does
he's just incompetent or doesn't care all that much

[XPac]

he knows mutants are being taken to private prisons
he knows anti-mutant sentiments are high
no wonder scott decides to escape
his trust on cap helping mutantkind was a mistake

again, he might mean well
i'm sure he does
he's just incompetent or doesn't care all that much

Trust is Steve isn't really an issue... again, this isn't Steve's call. That's the part of the story people in this thread are constantly overlooking. It's not incompetence on his part if it's not his decision.

[AcesX1X]

Jack got killed because Scott kick those guys asses the issue before. That was retibution.

Seriouly watch all but the last season of Oz!

everyone is on the take!

[quillero]

Trust is Steve isn't really an issue... again, this isn't Steve's call. That's the part of the story people in this thread are constantly overlooking. It's not incompetence on his part if it's not his decision.

it's not like he has a history of standing up to the government when he thinks things are unfair............

[XPac]

it's not like he has a history of standing up to the government when he thinks things are unfair............

For all we know he did try to stand up to the government on the matter, but again... the point is that it's not actually his call. He's not the director of the BOP, just like I don't imagine the director of the BOP going up to Steve and telling him how Steve should handle Thanos.

If you're suggesting Steve pull a Civil War here, again Steve only violently opposed the government after Hill tried containing him by force ... she left him no choice. In most cases Steve will try and work with the government.