How fast should Superman be?

[Francisco]

Faster than light but having to deal with the side effects of his speed. (friction and such)

[adkal]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Faster than a speeding bullet?

But that's how fast the Bat-crew tend to be

(and, as another poster put forward, it depends on the kind of gun, too...)

[stephens2177]

Barry by accelrating way faster than superman could win most races easily,unless it was a infinite race track,then they would be equals....until superman grows in power,couse then he will have to leave earth,because his every move could possibly destroy it.

Btw can someday list all flash's weaknesses?
shazam and martian manhunters too??

[JaggedFel]

Right now Sensory overload for the Flash.

Shazam does not really have any well unless his opponent has some sort of anti magic ability.

Martian Manhunter, I suppose he is weak to intense fire so he cannot lets say fly into the sun like Superman.

But yeah Martians should just get the YJ Powers. Shapeshifting (and enhanced physical abilities because of it), TK to replace martian vision (allows boost to strength and flight) and Telepathy.

[stephens2177]

Right now Sensory overload for the Flash.

Shazam does not really have any well unless his opponent has some sort of anti magic ability.

Martian Manhunter, I suppose he is weak to intense fire so he cannot lets say fly into the sun like Superman.

But yeah Martians should just get the YJ Powers. Shapeshifting (and enhanced physical abilities because of it), TK to replace martian vision (allows boost to strength and flight) and Telepathy.

So not really any artifical weaknesses to stopor slow down any of those specific characters,thats what i thought,and thats why the whole arguement about superman being to powerful is BS,and will always be BS.
if they made superman visibly more powerful than those three characters where they would even mention things like if he ever went nuts we would be screwed then i could see him having more weaknesses than them.the more powerfulyou get,the more weaknesses that can be created for you,simple as that.
Oh and now that were in the age of "other" characters getting to broaden their use of their powers(like wallys IMP and speed steal,jonns godlike telepathy,shazams lighting and magic conjuring)then i purpose we donthe same for superman.
If we are gonna live in a world where others can be at their full potential,and even moving past that,then lets really piss off the superman haters,and give him the same respect.
i would make superman strongest and most durable where jonn,billy,and wonder woman would have a hard time holding him down all together.
Fast as the enviromemt can handle it,which means not able to be as fast on earth,but fast as hell off of it.
With that speed he should be abletovibrate his molecules too,for intangibilty and invisible.
Also his super senses should be so great he can see everything on earth from orbit.
super intelligence for inventing things,calculating probabilities,learnijmg almost anything instantly with perfect memory.
Super lungs should allow for sonics,wind,or freezing abilities
Heat vision should allow operation pinpoint accuracy,or melting half the moon if he wants.
I would bring back the toraqus mind ability thing(yes i wrote that wrong) make it possible for him to fight off telepaths,but also attack them if need bei dont really want him to be a full on telepath,but i dont see why his mind couldnt or shouldnt do what telepaths can do.

[maxpower00044]

But that's how fast the Bat-crew tend to be

(and, as another poster put forward, it depends on the kind of gun, too...)

Well played.

[adkal]

i would make superman strongest and most durable where jonn,billy,and wonder woman would have a hard time holding him down all together.

Like he was in King of the World?

Fast as the enviromemt can handle it,which means not able to be as fast on earth,but fast as hell off of it.

Pretty much as he is now.

With that speed he should be abletovibrate his molecules too,for intangibilty and invisible.

Like he did during the Presidential campaign when Lex was running?

Also his super senses should be so great he can see everything on earth from orbit.

He's been like this for a long time - his hearing did get a boost thanks to Bat-Ra's but that was temporary.

super intelligence for inventing things,

From scratch or adapting, merging, upgrading etc other tech?

calculating probabilities,

This he does all the time; it's rarely mentioned, though.

learnijmg almost anything instantly with perfect memory.

This he has but, again, it's underplayed.

He should also know, or be able to quickly pick up, almost any language - and sound like a local.

Other than Bart, from what I recall the other Flashes are able to learn quickly but aren't able to retain what they speed-learn.

Super lungs should allow for sonics,wind,or freezing abilities

He's got this.

Heat vision should allow operation pinpoint accuracy,

He lobotomised Manchester Black, and operated on a super-vibrating Flash using his heat vision.

or melting half the moon if he wants.

How about re-heating the Earth

I would bring back the toraqus mind ability thing(yes i wrote that wrong) make it possible for him to fight off telepaths,but also attack them if need bei dont really want him to be a full on telepath,but i dont see why his mind couldnt or shouldnt do what telepaths can do.

Yeah, he should be able to 'shove' them off - c'mon, why is it okay for Bruce to be able to do it but it makes Kal 'too powerful'? [insert eye-roll smiley]

[adkal]

Well played.

(10 characters)

[Kizmet]

I would bring back the toraqus mind ability thing(yes i wrote that wrong) make it possible for him to fight off telepaths,but also attack them if need bei dont really want him to be a full on telepath,but i dont see why his mind couldnt or shouldnt do what telepaths can do.

In "Blackest Night" Kon did as well as anyone (maybe better) when it came to fighting off the mind-control. But they didn't treat it as a power, instead Kon decided he was sick of people mind-controlling him and using him against his friends. He went out and got the training needed to fight off mind-control, then he put his training into practice.

There's nothing stopping Clark from doing the same, but I liked that it was something Kon worked to gain rather than just "Oh he's a super, his powers can do anything the story requires." All purpose powers are so boring.

[adkal]

In "Blackest Night" Kon did as well as anyone (maybe better) when it came to fighting off the mind-control. But they didn't treat it as a power, instead Kon decided he was sick of people mind-controlling him and using him against his friends. He went out and got the training needed to fight off mind-control, then he put his training into practice.

There's nothing stopping Clark from doing the same, but I liked that it was something Kon worked to gain rather than just "Oh he's a super, his powers can do anything the story requires." All purpose powers are so boring.

Clark has done the same. Repeatedly. It's something that keeps getting forgotten and then 'oh, he should have some training to counter it' and then forgotten again.

J'onn said that Clark was able to 'hide' his mind from him, and that he disappeared when he left Smallville (this was in Ostrander's run, I think).

Later, there were several mentions of him and other JL members having undergone training, but then this facet gets dropped (or 'excused' with the new manipulator being more powerful or, in the case of Max Lord, having planted their Trojan Horse long before the training, allowing them a 'backdoor').

[stephens2177]

Adkal yes he has shown all those abilities off and on over the years,but they are not consistent,they are almost forgotten every other issue,and if he was shown the same respect as barry,wally,jonn,or billy he would have these abilities,these uses for his powers,as his everyday possiblepowerset.

Dont get me talking about superboy,i actually think he would do really damn well against barry or jonn,his powers and the way his mind work are perfect for fighting them imo.

[Francisco]

They don't want Superman to overshadow all of them. But by not allowing that to happen they make a huge disservice to the man of steel. He's supposed to overshadow pretty much every other hero in the DCU. Batman included.

[stephens2177]

Superman is supposed to be other heroes hero,thats what he is,he is who they look up too.

[Kizmet]

Superman is supposed to be other heroes hero,thats what he is,he is who they look up too.

Yeah, but I'm inclined to think that has little to do with Superman's powers, it's about the sort of person he is.

[Superlad93]

Why does it matter if Flash is a bit faster than Superman? What does that actually do to any of the Superman stories? Is Superman gonna be like "man Lois guess you should have called out for the Flash to catch you from that fall cuz he's faster than me"....do we really think that's gonna happen?


Or is Superman gonna not try as hard to race to a situation because he know Flash is faster? No. That's not Superman. To all the people on earth (including most heroes) Flash and Superman can't even be SEEN or tracked by most earthly tech!! Most if not all situations where they need to be fast enough to get somewhere will end in them getting there in time because it's a freakin comic book and it's Flash and Superman!!

I don't see what Superman being faster than the Flash has to do with the well being of any of HIS stories other than him being able to say that he's that fastest.

Or we can all say what this conversation really is......a "my hero is better than your hero" conversation. The two of them are friends and if trouble ever comes and it needs the fastest feet then I'm sure Superman would step out of the way and go with the sure thing. Or if it need someone to go to mars in the fastest time possible then Flash would be more than willing to let Superman take it (he can't fly).

But in the end Superman being faster or slower than Flash has absolutely no effect of his stories at all and it wont effect my enjoyment of them.