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  1. #76
    Mattress Tester T Hedge Coke's Avatar
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    Meehl, you'd be easier to take seriously without that dopey sig.

    I do agree that Delano's John was smaller scale and considerably lucky to note end up skinned somewhere but still alive.

    The Horrorist and Bad Blood go full on for the detritus-John, the mess that's left but thank all the gods you can muster it wasn't that golden boy twin instead.

    Ennis had to go somewhere with the character, so he upped his heroism and capability foremost, and his charm a bit, secondly. But, that's okeh, punk was dying off anyway. A facelift was good, and a facelift that ages him as well, even better.

    Who did the reality TV in Hell story? Was that Rankin?

    I think what I most disliked about Azzarello's take was that John seemed shorn of a lot of the John Constantine that had aggregated over the course of the series and while I mind that less with Spider-Man or Batman or whomever, with John it did seem, at the time, a dehumanizing, a de-Johning. In retrospect, it's fairly tight for what it is, and the most anyone's ever tried to obscure their own personal ethics and politics in a Constantine story/run ever. (Maybe I'll change my mind again if I reread it in ten years.)

  2. #77
    Say WHAT?!?!?!? FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Ennis put John up against bigger antagonists, but he did not change the character. He was still essentially a con man with exquisite knowledge of arcane, no particular power except force of will.
    I do think that Ennis changed the tone of the book, though. Delano's JC was a lot more thoughful and philosophical than Ennis' JC. It was a pointed commentary on late '80s-early '90s society, which may make it seem dated, but at least it was grappling with ideas. As great as Ennis' run is as a construction of plot, a lot of the brains went out of the book. It was replaced by some excellent characterization of supporting characters, but the loner, thinker John was replaced by "me and my mates" John. There's something "easier" about the threats that Ennis' JC faced-- it's Satan, it's racism, etc-- than what Delano had John standing against. Delano's run had two problems: focus and inconsistant art. I often wonder how people would react to The Family Man if Steve Dillon had done the art instead of Ron Tiner.

    And I agree with T Hedge that Ennis took John more in the direction of a conventional comics (super)hero than what Delano did on the book. I think that has to do with the "easy" threats-- Satan, racists, etc-- that Ennis' JC had to contend with compared to the byzantine structures of power, the very real and human serial killer, and the self-loathing that Delano had John deal with.
    Last edited by FanboyStranger; 10-28-2012 at 06:05 PM.

  3. #78
    Veteran Member Sonofspam's Avatar
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    Milligan made me a fan of Constantine and Hellblazer.

  4. #79
    Mattress Tester T Hedge Coke's Avatar
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    Delano's John doesn't really win much, either, does he? Seemed like John was either always half-late to saving the day or the massive loss was inevitable and the best that could be hoped for was at least some survivors and a shitload of trauma.

    Ennis still killed off cast and had John suffer for his victories, but in general, he got to glass the face of evil and walk away under his own power, to be brought low by non-magical things (Kit, mostly) instead.

    When be get to Azzarello, eventually, John's basically been cartooned, and Azzarello runs with that, but it's not the political cartoons, the satirical cartoons of Ennis or Delano, and it's not the kitchen sink emotionalism-cartooning of Gaiman's or Morrison's stories, it's just big and stripped back, too.

    Warren Ellis, as I recall, said he wanted to get away from the demon and troll stand-ins for horror, and deal with the horrors directly, the emotions and situations. That's the thing that's kept Hellblazer alive this long, I think, the personal element, the kitchen sink and not the giant puke demon that swells out from the drain and babbles some funny lines before being burnt up by a magic cigarette extinguished at the right moment.

    Which is where DCU-proper John Constantine seems to be, in my opinion, going wrong.

  5. #80
    Senior Member Scurlogg_Hawkk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Dude, you could have killed every person on this forum!
    I am around .I think for now the Peter Miligan's run on the book is good getting close to epic if kills the wife of John Constantin
    In brightest day, in blackest night,
    No evil shall escape my sight
    Let those who worship evil's might,
    Beware my power... Green Lantern's light

  6. #81
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Except for Warren Ellis's first arc, the Ennis run is IMO the best the book has ever been.
    Ellis arc? You mean those issues was never realesed or few issues he did? I would agree Ennis run is the best and Delano is my second fav. Delano had it harder starting with nothing and building up HB. Ennis took over estabilished series by Delano.
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  7. #82
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libaax View Post
    Ellis arc? You mean those issues was never realesed or few issues he did? I would agree Ennis run is the best and Delano is my second fav. Delano had it harder starting with nothing and building up HB. Ennis took over estabilished series by Delano.
    I mean this one.


    Hellblazer #134-139.

    He did that five or six issue arc, followed it up by a handfull of one-shots, one of which was the one that lot him the gig. But that first arc was a great little horror story.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  8. #83
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    I do think that Ennis changed the tone of the book, though. Delano's JC was a lot more thoughful and philosophical than Ennis' JC. It was a pointed commentary on late '80s-early '90s society, which may make it seem dated, but at least it was grappling with ideas. As great as Ennis' run is as a construction of plot, a lot of the brains went out of the book. It was replaced by some excellent characterization of supporting characters, but the loner, thinker John was replaced by "me and my mates" John. There's something "easier" about the threats that Ennis' JC faced-- it's Satan, it's racism, etc-- than what Delano had John standing against. Delano's run had two problems: focus and inconsistant art. I often wonder how people would react to The Family Man if Steve Dillon had done the art instead of Ron Tiner.

    And I agree with T Hedge that Ennis took John more in the direction of a conventional comics (super)hero than what Delano did on the book. I think that has to do with the "easy" threats-- Satan, racists, etc-- that Ennis' JC had to contend with compared to the byzantine structures of power, the very real and human serial killer, and the self-loathing that Delano had John deal with.
    I think you are simplifying too much about Ennis run, sure there was more confront,heroic acts but his HB run was far from superhero.

    Delano was as you say but it was not near as consistent storytelling wise. Alot of the early stuff by Delano felt like nothing happened before he got going with the themes,issues he had JC deal with.

    What do you feel about Milligan's run so far? Im thinking about getting back to HB and i wonder which arc seasoned HB fans like you and Carabas for example rate?
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    The Walking Dead,Fatale,Near Death,Storm Dogs,Happy,BPRD,XO-Manowar
    American Vampire,Animal Man,Swamp Thing
    Daredevil, Winter Soldier,Indestructible Hulk

  9. #84
    Say WHAT?!?!?!? FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libaax View Post
    What do you feel about Milligan's run so far? Im thinking about getting back to HB and i wonder which arc seasoned HB fans like you and Carabas for example rate?
    Funnily enough, I just answered this question in the "Peter Milligan" thread. I think it's found its feet after an iffy start. I didn't really like it until after the "India" art. There were things that Milligan was doing well-- he definitely had John's voice down, and I liked the idea that the aging, lonely John was reaching out for whatever human compassion he could find, realizing that the clock is ticking and there's not much time left-- but there was so much "active" magic, something that was compounded by Cammicoli (whose work I've always enjoyed) having John throwing around spells with Doctor Strange finger gestures. Up until that point, it was a so-so run, and the highlights were Simon Bisley's one-offs. The lead up to John and Epiphany's marriage is where the book became a lot more solid, and I think it's been great since then. If I were to recommend one single issue from Milligan's run, it would certainly be HB Annual 1: Suicide Bridge with Bisley, one of the best single issues in the history of Hellblazer.

  10. #85

  11. #86
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    Just heard this. Damn. Well, that's another great character lost. Only Fables left for me now, from Vertigo-and I won't be buying the DCnU book.

  12. #87
    Mattress Tester T Hedge Coke's Avatar
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    Who's on the DCU book?

    But you know, undrugged, unhorror, unqueered, deaged John who doesn't swear must have a market.

    Or, they could just have standards, and it'd be pre-Vertigo Constantine all the way! (But, no. They won't.)

  13. #88
    Hey, Larry! Darrell D.'s Avatar
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    Maybe he can team up with Batman and Superman again, and they can shake hands.
    Finally, all my fan-fiction will be real! <swwoooon>

    This isn't really surprising news. I expect the announcement that Vertigo is closing up shop sometime before the end of the year, or early in the next.

  14. #89

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    UGH.

    Just...UGH.
    Check out my New Blog! Just a random assortment of ideas, thoughts, and reviews!

    http://heshouldreallyknowbetter.blogspot.com/

  15. #90
    Senior Member Dizzy D's Avatar
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    As I can't say this on the DC-board:

    Well..... shit.

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