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  1. #301
    Senior Member Eumenides's Avatar
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    We know what the monthly series was selling. As for the trades, I think it was in one of these boards that I read that Hellblazer's tpbs didn't even enter the Top 300. It'd be interesting to know just how many trades were sold. It may be that they weren't selling as wonderfully as some think.

  2. #302
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eumenides View Post
    We know what the monthly series was selling. As for the trades, I think it was in one of these boards that I read that Hellblazer's tpbs didn't even enter the Top 300. It'd be interesting to know just how many trades were sold. It may be that they weren't selling as wonderfully as some think.
    There can also be trades that never crack the Top 300, but keep selling consistantly month after month after month.
    (Don't know if Hellblazer may have been able to do that or not, though.)
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  3. #303
    14 Time Rita's Champion SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eumenides View Post
    We know what the monthly series was selling. As for the trades, I think it was in one of these boards that I read that Hellblazer's tpbs didn't even enter the Top 300. It'd be interesting to know just how many trades were sold. It may be that they weren't selling as wonderfully as some think.
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    There can also be trades that never crack the Top 300, but keep selling consistantly month after month after month.
    (Don't know if Hellblazer may have been able to do that or not, though.)
    Which is likely what happened. Because honestly... DC will not keep publishing a title for 100 issues if sales aren't there. Its clear the title was selling well enough in TPB to keep the title going as we saw. That is how Vertigo books work. Is sales aren't good they cancel them.
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  4. #304
    Senior Member Superdog's Avatar
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    Yeah I think it's pretty clear it was some editorial re-branding nonsense that killed it, not a dollars and cents analysis.
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  5. #305
    Senior Member Dizzy D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eumenides View Post
    We know what the monthly series was selling. As for the trades, I think it was in one of these boards that I read that Hellblazer's tpbs didn't even enter the Top 300. It'd be interesting to know just how many trades were sold. It may be that they weren't selling as wonderfully as some think.
    These are the only figures I could find, but the TPBs (note this is Diamond, so Amazon, online shops and bookstores are not included AFAIK):

    http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...2/2012-02.html
    12 Hellblazer Phantom Pains $14.99 DC 2,238
    http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...2/2012-06.html
    60 Hellblazer Vol. 3 The Fear Machine New Ed $24.99 DC 1,616 (This was a reissue of an earlier TPB, so sales are naturally lower).
    http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...2/2012-10.html
    34 Hellblazer The Devils Trench Coat $16.99 DC 2,260

    The first number is the rank, so ranking 12th and 34th for new TPBs and still 60th for a new edition of an older TPB doesn't sound bad.

    Interesting is this quote from Brian Wood though (source: http://comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-mont...july-2012-2/):
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Wood
    Brian Wood says:
    09/10/2012 at 7:39 pm

    “A few years ago, common wisdom had it that Vertigo titles didn’t “need” good periodical sales, because collection sales were supposed to be awesome. Once Northlanders — by Brian Wood, one of the most established and critically acclaimed independent creators in the market — ended up being cancelled, however, that’s another myth debunked. “It has a very loyal fanbase but the trade sales just aren’t cutting the mustard,” Wood wrote about a year back.”

    Marc-Oliver uses this quote of mine a lot to support theories like the one above, but it doesn’t always work and I’ve been meaning to say why. There was a Levitz DC and now a “nu” DC, and different rules and ways of doing business and rope given and success measured differs between the two (at least as far as I could see at Vertigo). Northlanders was doing fine, I’m told, until different standards were put into place, and then suddenly, like I said, it “wasn’t cutting the mustard”.

    The sales didn’t really drop in any meaningful way. Looking at my royalty statements, the difference between “okay” and “let’s cancel” was maybe 200 copies. I was also told DMZ would have been cancelled if it wasn’t already ending, and trade sales on THOSE books were easily 3-4x Northlanders.

    Marc-Oliver’s making a valid point about sales, but in this specific case I don’t think comparisons between pre- and post-regime change work that well.

    Ideally he’d stop using Northlanders as an example because I’d be willing to bet my next royalty check that under the “old” DC that book would still be going.

    b

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by obii View Post
    I think we can agree that the low sales justified a rethinking of the ongoing series.
    Do you? I don't think we can...

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Sales were stabilized between 9,000-10,000. Its been posted countless times that Vertigo mostly survives due to TPB sales of comics . If a series can't sell well in TPB it won't last. Hellblazer would have been cancelled years ago if the TPB sales wasn't there.
    Which they apparently were. At least in the UK, which Diamond's figures do not reflect. Without adding in international sales, there's no way of conclusively saying whether the trades were supporting themselves, and I'm willing to bet (from what various retailers over here have said) that Hellblazer sold better in trade in the UK than many other DC titles, simply because Constantine has always been a popular character over here. International sales of Hellblazer would in all probability have accounted for rather more of the overall sales than the 10% usually quoted for most DC or Marvel titles, but the 'official' figures put out by Diamond would not reflect this as they list US sales only.

  7. #307
    Senior Member Vidocq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy D View Post
    Interesting is this quote from Brian Wood though (source: http://comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-mont...july-2012-2/):
    Wow, so The New DC fucked things up for everyone. Vertigo would be pretty much impossible to work in with those standards, specially when you got competitors that are much less trigger happy. What would motivate anyone to publish at Vertigo now?

    Makes me wonder now if Jonah Hex could survive in the Nu52.


    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    Which they apparently were. At least in the UK, which Diamond's figures do not reflect. Without adding in international sales, there's no way of conclusively saying whether the trades were supporting themselves, and I'm willing to bet (from what various retailers over here have said) that Hellblazer sold better in trade in the UK than many other DC titles, simply because Constantine has always been a popular character over here. International sales of Hellblazer would in all probability have accounted for rather more of the overall sales than the 10% usually quoted for most DC or Marvel titles, but the 'official' figures put out by Diamond would not reflect this as they list US sales only.
    Yeah, I lived in Liverpool for a little while and can attest to this. Not as big as Judge Dredd, Doctor Who or the ever present Batman but he was up there. He was somewhat bigger in Spain as far as I could see and most of the geeks I met there were Otakus who besides manga only read Hellblazer (One had a terrible idea for a Hellblazer manga that was basically Cowboy Bebop with magic).

    I'm sure my buddies (Particulary the Spanish ones) will love it when John freaky fridays with Nick Necro.
    Last edited by Vidocq; 11-19-2012 at 07:25 AM.
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  8. #308
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidocq View Post
    Wow, so The New DC fucked things up for everyone. Vertigo would be pretty much impossible to work in with those standards, specially when you got competitors that are much less trigger happy. What would motivate anyone to publish at Vertigo now?

    Makes me wonder now if Jonah Hex could survive in the Nu52.
    Well, he's starring in All-Star Western in the New 52, which has been an on-going since September 2011.

    Side note: picked up Hellblazer #'s 273 - 275 today in the dollar bin at a shop I go to every once in a blue moon. Time to reacquaint myself with Constantine. (Last issue I originally bought was # 87.)
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  9. #309

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    Woah o.o
    Do share your thoughts after you've finished^^
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  10. #310
    Senior Member Vidocq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Well, he's starring in All-Star Western in the New 52, which has been an on-going since September 2011.
    Exactly, I wonder if All-Star Western could survive as much as Jonah Hex did.
    ...And does Mr. Goddanm Batman says so much as ''Thanks''? OF COURSE not. That'd hardly be GRIM AND GRITTY, would it?

    The jerk...

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  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidocq View Post
    Exactly, I wonder if All-Star Western could survive as much as Jonah Hex did.
    Which is why I don't think Wood is necessarily right.

  12. #312

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    Wow, I've been out of the loop for so long I just found out about this yesterday and I've been reading as much as I can about it since then so here are my thoughts.

    I love Hellblazer - I got into it with the Ennis run and started collecting it as a monthly with Warren Ellis' run. I have to admit I don't think I've ever really felt it got near the brilliance of the Ennis run in anything I've since read.

    I'm not totally in love with Milligan's run and find it's a bit hit and miss really. Felt the same about Diggle's run too. I have wondered over the years what exactly can be done with John when a new creative team take over? There is an awful lot of pressure on anyone who takes on Hellblazer I think because you are continuing in the lineage of Moore, Delano and Ennis, and the fact that he is such a cornerstone of Vertigo.

    I've often thought maybe OGNs are the way to go with the character rather than an ongoing series. I just don't think the character lends himself very well to an ongoing series like most, as he is more "real-world" in general.

    In that sense maybe it will be a good thing that he actually gets a proper ending - also it will give me more time to check out the older stuff that I haven't gotten around to reading yet!

    The real sickener here though, is the DCU version of him continuing instead. It does feel as if some indefinable aspect of Vertigo has died here. Any chance of it being seen as a place for creators and exciting new ideas seems to be a long way off now, not like in the 80s and 90s when it was genuinely exciting and taking risks. Everything is driven by marketing and brands and franchises and all that shite and nobody cares about the stories anymore.

    And to those who are saying they would read a DCU Constantine over a Vertigo one - I'm intrigued; why? It seems to me like some people are just predisposed to hate Constantine based on preconceptions of him or Vertigo in general without actually reading him. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd just be interested to know anyway.

  13. #313
    Senior Member Scurlogg_Hawkk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPhonomancer View Post
    Wow, I've been out of the loop for so long I just found out about this yesterday and I've been reading as much as I can about it since then so here are my thoughts.

    I love Hellblazer - I got into it with the Ennis run and started collecting it as a monthly with Warren Ellis' run. I have to admit I don't think I've ever really felt it got near the brilliance of the Ennis run in anything I've since read.

    I'm not totally in love with Milligan's run and find it's a bit hit and miss really. Felt the same about Diggle's run too. I have wondered over the years what exactly can be done with John when a new creative team take over? There is an awful lot of pressure on anyone who takes on Hellblazer I think because you are continuing in the lineage of Moore, Delano and Ennis, and the fact that he is such a cornerstone of Vertigo.

    I've often thought maybe OGNs are the way to go with the character rather than an ongoing series. I just don't think the character lends himself very well to an ongoing series like most, as he is more "real-world" in general.

    In that sense maybe it will be a good thing that he actually gets a proper ending - also it will give me more time to check out the older stuff that I haven't gotten around to reading yet!

    The real sickener here though, is the DCU version of him continuing instead. It does feel as if some indefinable aspect of Vertigo has died here. Any chance of it being seen as a place for creators and exciting new ideas seems to be a long way off now, not like in the 80s and 90s when it was genuinely exciting and taking risks. Everything is driven by marketing and brands and franchises and all that shite and nobody cares about the stories anymore.

    And to those who are saying they would read a DCU Constantine over a Vertigo one - I'm intrigued; why? It seems to me like some people are just predisposed to hate Constantine based on preconceptions of him or Vertigo in general without actually reading him. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd just be interested to know anyway.

    Mate i will read the both versions of our dear Johnny boy .The chew toy of destiny .Here we see a perfect case of Dc trying too do something not so smart leave Vertigo alone and play with any superhero you want .
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  14. #314
    Veteran Member Sonofspam's Avatar
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    I wonder if this has anything to do with the rumored JL dark movie? also count me as the one of the people who got interested into the Hellblazer books because of Milligan and also Epiphany (whom i have a wee bit of a crush on)

  15. #315
    Senior Member Superdog's Avatar
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    The JL dark movie is a rumor of a rumor of a rumor. If it ever materializes it will likely be yeaaaaaars from now. I doubt anyone is basing any decisions around that.
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