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  1. #31
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Don't all super heroes at some point? It can be a rough life...
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  2. #32
    Member Seattle Freeze's Avatar
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    Default Can Batman walk away from being Batman?

    The comic books will never show Batman hanging up his cowl to embrace being Bruce Wayne full time because there are no sales left in a permanent happy ending. In stories where he does walk away, he always seems to come back to it or be pulled back in. Batman Beyond had him stating that, in his head, he refers to himself as "Batman" not "Bruce Wayne" indicating he would always be Batman no matter what. However, Dark Knight Rises showed Batman walking away to embrace a "normal life", supposedly once and for all.

    Can you see him ever deciding to give up being Batman? What could cause him to give it up permanently? Would he be willing to settle down to a family life? If he did, would Damian be willing to give up crime-fighting as well to have a "normal life" with his father?

    Would Batman allow himself to have a happy ending? Do you like the idea of the character having one?

  3. #33
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    The Earth 2 Batman (supposedly the continuation of the Golden Age character) did retire. He was happy to retire. He became police commissioner, got married to Selina and had a kid. So yeah, I can see him walking away from being Batman.

    I see Bruce Wayne being a person who wants to help people, not a guy with a death wish. And with the Wayne resources, there are many ways to help people, especially as he gets older... some of them more effective than swinging around and jacking people in the face.

    At the end of the day, there have been many versions of Batman to appear in comics. Some, I believe would eventually retire. Some -- the crazier ones -- wouldn't.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    The Earth 2 Batman (supposedly the continuation of the Golden Age character) did retire. He was happy to retire. He became police commissioner, got married to Selina and had a kid. So yeah, I can see him walking away from being Batman.

    I see Bruce Wayne being a person who wants to help people, not a guy with a death wish. And with the Wayne resources, there are many ways to help people, especially as he gets older... some of them more effective than swinging around and jacking people in the face.

    At the end of the day, there have been many versions of Batman to appear in comics. Some, I believe would eventually retire. Some -- the crazier ones -- wouldn't.
    Well said.

    It would never happen with the mainstream Batman, but I honestly think the natural progression of the pre-FP Batman after going through all of Morrison's run and Inc especially would be stepping down from the role and taking the more intelligence and strategic role, using resources to make GCPD more effective than Batman ever could be, and keeping Dick and Damian in their roles.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    Well said.

    It would never happen with the mainstream Batman, but I honestly think the natural progression of the pre-FP Batman after going through all of Morrison's run and Inc especially would be stepping down from the role and taking the more intelligence and strategic role, using resources to make GCPD more effective than Batman ever could be, and keeping Dick and Damian in their roles.
    nice idea
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Freeze View Post
    However, Dark Knight Rises showed Batman walking away to embrace a "normal life", supposedly once and for all.

    Can you see him ever deciding to give up being Batman? What could cause him to give it up permanently? Would he be willing to settle down to a family life?
    It's interesting that both cinematic Batman timelines (Nolan's and Burton's) had Batman willing to settle down once Selina Kyle became part of his life. It seems like that's an important factor.

    Would Batman allow himself to have a happy ending? Do you like the idea of the character having one?
    I was surprised by "Dark Knight Rises"'s happy ending. I found it very affecting. Never expected to see Batman move on, because in the past, he never has. It was nice to see and made me feel oddly hopeful about some things.

    If he did, would Damian be willing to give up crime-fighting as well to have a "normal life" with his father?
    Damian still has a long way to go before he can live a normal life.

    Bruce has been dealing with his pain, tragedy, and issues for 30 years. It's conceivable that he could be ready to move on.

    But Damian was raised by killers, with an absent, emotionally-vacant mother. And he's STILL developing, as a child. It'll take a long time before the damage that's been done can be undone, before he can move on.

  7. #37
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    The comics have been around for decades, and will be around for decades more. So Batman could basically never quit. But in movies or TV, he can quit. Especially when the director / writer, etc. decides they want a closed story.

    Personally, I'm glad Nolan ended his trilogy the way he did. The Batman Nolanverse is self-contained.

  8. #38

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    For consideration, in Kevin Smith's "The Widening Gyre," with Batman engaged to Silver St. Cloud, he says this: "That was the moment I knew... really knew... that one day, not this year, probably not the next, but one day... I will stop all of this. And it'll be because of her."

  9. #39

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    I think it depends on which Batman (some of them are crazy) but if it were real I think Inc would be a great first step to his retirement.

  10. #40

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    Hmmmmmm.



    Maybe. But he'll make sure there's someone else to take over. Kinda like TDKR.

  11. #41
    Fortuna Favet Fortibus The Lucky One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensei View Post
    For consideration, in Kevin Smith's "The Widening Gyre," with Batman engaged to Silver St. Cloud, he says this: "That was the moment I knew... really knew... that one day, not this year, probably not the next, but one day... I will stop all of this. And it'll be because of her."
    That's similar to something he said in Identity Crisis. I'm not a huge fan of that miniseries as a whole, but I do love this one Batman line:

    "People think it's an obsession. A compulsion. As if there were an irresistible impulse to act. It's never been like that. I chose this life. I know what I'm doing. And on any given day, I could stop doing it. Today, however, isn't that day. And tomorrow won't be either."

    I have no idea if it was Meltzer's intention, but to me that reads like a shot across the bow to all those fans (and even some writers) who feel like Bruce Wayne died with his parents and there's only been The Bat ever since. That the "Bruce" persona is completely fabricated and he's lost in the mission. No, he isn't. He's a sane man doing a pretty insane thing who has accumulated a family who chose to join his mission of their own volition, and if he survives to the point where he realistically can't do it anymore, he'll stop.

    It doesn't work for everyone, and there have been some great stories of the more driven, obsessed Batman (TDKR, for one), but that's my Batman.

    -D
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  12. #42
    Senior Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lucky One View Post
    That's similar to something he said in Identity Crisis. I'm not a huge fan of that miniseries as a whole, but I do love this one Batman line:

    "People think it's an obsession. A compulsion. As if there were an irresistible impulse to act. It's never been like that. I chose this life. I know what I'm doing. And on any given day, I could stop doing it. Today, however, isn't that day. And tomorrow won't be either."

    I have no idea if it was Meltzer's intention, but to me that reads like a shot across the bow to all those fans (and even some writers) who feel like Bruce Wayne died with his parents and there's only been The Bat ever since. That the "Bruce" persona is completely fabricated and he's lost in the mission. No, he isn't. He's a sane man doing a pretty insane thing who has accumulated a family who chose to join his mission of their own volition, and if he survives to the point where he realistically can't do it anymore, he'll stop.

    It doesn't work for everyone, and there have been some great stories of the more driven, obsessed Batman (TDKR, for one), but that's my Batman.

    -D
    I think I've looked at that quote both ways at different times:

    1. It's the simple truth. Someday he will quit, if it seems the right way to go in the face of changing circumstances.

    2. It's deep denial. He's frantically pretending he is capable of quitting, someday!

    (Like a alcoholic saying: "The drink doesn't control me; I control the drink! I could stop any time! Honest! Just don't expect me to prove it -- by the way, can you give me credit for a third bottle of whiskey? Two bottles per day just doesn't give me as much pleasure as it used to, so I'm upgrading!")

  13. #43
    Member Seattle Freeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    The Earth 2 Batman (supposedly the continuation of the Golden Age character) did retire. He was happy to retire. He became police commissioner, got married to Selina and had a kid. So yeah, I can see him walking away from being Batman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haytil View Post
    It's interesting that both cinematic Batman timelines (Nolan's and Burton's) had Batman willing to settle down once Selina Kyle became part of his life. It seems like that's an important factor.
    That brings up another question I had in this train of thought- Is Selina really THE woman for Bruce? Could they really make a couple without the roles of their alter-egos? I see Selina loving the luxury and wealth of being Selina Wayne but then getting bored without the thrills of her cat life. She just doesn't seem like the settling down sort whereas I could see Bruce settling down, if nothing else for the sake of the Wayne legacy.

    It would be interesting to see a story where Selina and Bruce are married just to see how Selina and Damian interact as a step family.
    Chill!

  14. #44
    Fortuna Favet Fortibus The Lucky One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorendiac View Post
    I think I've looked at that quote both ways at different times:

    1. It's the simple truth. Someday he will quit, if it seems the right way to go in the face of changing circumstances.

    2. It's deep denial. He's frantically pretending he is capable of quitting, someday!

    (Like a alcoholic saying: "The drink doesn't control me; I control the drink! I could stop any time! Honest! Just don't expect me to prove it -- by the way, can you give me credit for a third bottle of whiskey? Two bottles per day just doesn't give me as much pleasure as it used to, so I'm upgrading!")
    I agree, I've thought of it both ways too. As an optimist I prefer the former interpretation, but I don't begrudge anyone who buys into the latter. And I do think that's why it's such a great line, because it's phrased in such a way (particularly the last two sentences) that both interpretations seem completely plausible.

    -D
    "I love the nostalgic, myself. I hope we never lose some of the things of the past."
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