MERGE: Thor's Depowering: Not a Powerhouse Anymore

[Movieartman]

what needs to happen, is people need to STOP calling thor a weakling and such, and STOP holding the character responsible for his recent showings, but blaim the people actualy responsible - THE BAT SHIT STUPID WRITERS

[nnelg]

what needs to happen, is people need to STOP calling thor a weakling and such, and STOP holding the character responsible for his recent showings, but blaim the people actualy responsible - THE BAT SHIT STUPID WRITERS

Us Thor fans were doing that. Just like all the fans of the Scarlet Witch have said since bendis took over the Avengers.

[avenging son]

Its really the strangest book out there continuity wise.

I have not read it, but that team is already out for so long it seems impossible.
But they keep telling its within 616.

Has it been explained how Thanos returned ?

wait, it IS in continuity?
that makes no sense at all.

and on the subject of thor, it seems the more "Conan" he has gotten, the more he has been "jobbed"

[ShaunN]

I'm sure these points have already been made, so pardon me:

1) I don't agree with the fulminations over Thor being trounced by the Phoenix Five. He was just much less powerful than they were, which would be evident to anyone familiar with the Phoenix. On the other hand, there is no doubt that the power levels of other characters were inconsistently applied.

2) I think that if Thor is being depowered, a major contributing factor may be "The Avengers" movie. In that film, Hulk was clearly stronger than Thor, something that was (to the best of my knowledge) only established once in the comics. it could be that the effort to make the comic universe reflect the movie is leading to the gradual underpowering of Thor.

However, this can all be easily turned around. There are decades of history establishing Thor as one of the premiere powerhouses of the MU. That is not easily or logically set aside. In the recent Fraction issues of Thor, Thor certainly was not underpowered.

[Movieartman]

2) I think that if Thor is being depowered, a major contributing factor may be "The Avengers" movie. In that film, Hulk was clearly stronger than Thor, something that was (to the best of my knowledge) only established once in the comics. it could be that the effort to make the comic universe reflect the movie is leading to the gradual underpowering of Thor.

i disagree on this, the hulk sure was strong enough to toss loki and thor about abit simply cus they where smaller beings, however i think there was little chance the hulk could have killed thor or even loki, there bodies where simply too resistant to injury.

example - in The Incredible Hulk (08) the hulk Kicks (a single time) agent belonski in to a tree which shatters every bone in his body, in the avengers the hulk smashes loki Reapeatedly in to a concrete floor as hard as he can, its unclear if loki falls unconsious but when we next see him he gets up pretty much with no problem. suggesting there was no lasting damage to him.

and thor and the hulk where fighting in the tight confines of the helicarrier, in an open area where thor didnt have to worry about human casulties thor could have brought all his powers to bear and then we would have got a real battle.

same goes for ironman, yes ironman simply by the nature of his outfit could go toe to toe with thor, however he couldnt win or phisicaly damage thor at all. (thor crushed ironmans Tank Shell proof armor with his bare hands)
NOTE: ironmans crimson cutting lasers questionably could have damaged thor, not sure tho

[PupsOfWar]

2) I think that if Thor is being depowered, a major contributing factor may be "The Avengers" movie. In that film, Hulk was clearly stronger than Thor, something that was (to the best of my knowledge) only established once in the comics. it could be that the effort to make the comic universe reflect the movie is leading to the gradual underpowering of Thor.

This seems like a good guess (If there is a consistent problem with Thor being underpowered).

More specifically, the movie'verse is pretty invested in making the characters seem like equals, effectiveness-wise, rather than acknowledging that people like Cap and Hawkeye just are not on the same plane as the superbeings.

Which is why we get things like the Thor v. Iron Man v. Cap brawl in the forest, which would be a foregone conclusion in comic book terms, or Hawkeye shooting down speeding targets with no-look, off-balance bowshots behind the back.

For the same reasons, Hulk ends up being physically much stronger than Thor, since movie!Thor has the other abilities that movie!Mjolnir confers, and so to be equal, Hulk has to be much stronger. Since superstrength/durability is all he's got.

[HaveAtThee]

REALLY Sick of this shit
there was nothing easy about how emma beat thor, having diamond shards blast completly thru your body would take down Anyone, and thease are objects that where being propelled so fast THEY SHOT CLEAN THRU A GOD! again that would take down anyone. and to the fools saying thor should have/could have blocked the shards - No not when they where going that freaking fast.
and thor had won the fight, he completly shattered emmas body, he didnt loose to emma he lost to the Pheonix Force, Big Difference there.

to be fair, it was established in JMS Run that if the hammer is ever severly broken again thor would die (this as a result of thor fusing part of his soul/energy in to repairing it after it was shattered in his battle with Bor) but yes thor still doesnt need to use it constantly

Shards of diamond shouldn't be able to pierce Thor but that's besides the point. The Phoenix Force has been turned into the worst plot-device when it was once something truly to behold and appeared sparingly. And when the story called for it Captain America, Wolverine and Spider-Man were the big heroes while Thor was embarrassed. It's just part of the Marvel sickness of this past decade where everything has to be humanized to work. Garbage writing. In the same Thor/Frost battle, Thor no-sells a psychic attack, which should be the Phoenix's specialty, but flying diamonds do the trick? As others have said, it's just lazy writing. Even someone who dislikes Thor can see that he was treated like a moron in AVX.

And about the JMS stipulation, that was one of the details I never liked about that story. That was Odin-Force Thor and he had to give up much of that Odin Force to reforge Mjolnir. Not sure if that is even being observed in the current series, seeing as he doesn't possess the Odin Force anymore. Besides, if someone were to crack or break Mjolnir, he'd have to be an amped up Hulk or a celestial. Mjolnir isn't exactly a Craftsman hammer with a rubber handle. Odin said "there is no equal to Mjolnir" as a weapon. Thor's constantly just using his hammer when his fists would work fine because Marvel wants to sell toy hammers and action-figures.

[HaveAtThee]

This seems like a good guess (If there is a consistent problem with Thor being underpowered).

More specifically, the movie'verse is pretty invested in making the characters seem like equals, effectiveness-wise, rather than acknowledging that people like Cap and Hawkeye just are not on the same plane as the superbeings.

Which is why we get things like the Thor v. Iron Man v. Cap brawl in the forest, which would be a foregone conclusion in comic book terms, or Hawkeye shooting down speeding targets with no-look, off-balance bowshots behind the back.

For the same reasons, Hulk ends up being physically much stronger than Thor, since movie!Thor has the other abilities that movie!Mjolnir confers, and so to be equal, Hulk has to be much stronger. Since superstrength/durability is all he's got.

I don't think Hulk was portrayed as "far" stronger. They were shown roughly as equals in strength, but it was clear that if Hulk were to get angrier he would surpass Thor in strength, although that battle was more about Thor containing Hulk rather than going out of his way to really try and hurt him. When Hulk punched Thor through those crates, which looked like quite the shot, the worst Thor got was a minor nosebleed. Thor smiling shows that he really wasn't hurt from that. The power levels in the film are different in various scenes. Both Thor and Hulk had a monster one-shot on those alien aircraft things. Hulk's looked the prettiest because it was edited in slow-motion, but the scene where Thor and Hulk are on top of one fighting the Chitauri, Hulk jams some metal shard into the ship and Thor one-shots it with Mjolnir into the ground (after which we get the cute Hulk bro-fist with Thor moment). Both Hulk and Thor were considerably depowered for the film because it would literally be obsurd to have two inordinately powerful beings next to the rest of the roster. If the roster expands for the sequel to include another powerful character (Ms. Marvel perhaps?), then the scales will even out a bit. Plus they will have Thanos to beat up on and cut loose.

[DiceRoll]

I don't think Hulk was portrayed as "far" stronger. They were shown roughly as equals in strength, but it was clear that if Hulk were to get angrier he would surpass Thor in strength, although that battle was more about Thor containing Hulk rather than going out of his way to really try and hurt him. When Hulk punched Thor through those crates, which looked like quite the shot, the worst Thor got was a minor nosebleed. Thor smiling shows that he really wasn't hurt from that. The power levels in the film are different in various scenes. Both Thor and Hulk had a monster one-shot on those alien aircraft things. Hulk's looked the prettiest because it was edited in slow-motion, but the scene where Thor and Hulk are on top of one fighting the Chitauri, Hulk jams some metal shard into the ship and Thor one-shots it with Mjolnir into the ground (after which we get the cute Hulk bro-fist with Thor moment). Both Hulk and Thor were considerably depowered for the film because it would literally be obsurd to have two inordinately powerful beings next to the rest of the roster. If the roster expands for the sequel to include another powerful character (Ms. Marvel perhaps?), then the scales will even out a bit. Plus they will have Thanos to beat up on and cut loose.

To be fair that could be seen more as a team effort, like the Cap/Iron Man fusion attack.

[HaveAtThee]

Fair enough, but it was Thor "hitting the nail" that Hulk jammed in there which caused that ship to crash. It's no less impressive.

[midnightshrink]

Thor got a significant power boost after the latest Ragnarok. There is no way in hell he should have been able to kill the Sentry before that. So your argument is weak. Yet the Hulk is the strongest character in the Marvel Universe who traded blows with the Sentry who is the most powerful superhero in the history of Marvel. By far. So there you go. Just because Hulk is strongest there is does not make Thor neigh the mightier.

[kane]

So, what do we call Thor outside his own comics now? JobbeThor? Any suggestions?

[Whip Whirlwind]

Fair enough, but it was Thor "hitting the nail" that Hulk jammed in there which caused that ship to crash. It's no less impressive.

I honestly think the avengers movie did a great job with Thor. Maybe play up the "I can't casually toss lightning when there's people around" bit a little more, but other than that he was clearly the most powerful, even if he wasn't the strongest physically.

[DiceRoll]

Fair enough, but it was Thor "hitting the nail" that Hulk jammed in there which caused that ship to crash. It's no less impressive.

I supposed, though even if he wasn't there Hulk would've probably just jammed it in himself. The whole point of the scene was to show them all finally working together, not so much about performing impressive feats.

I honestly think the avengers movie did a great job with Thor. Maybe play up the "I can't casually toss lightning when there's people around" bit a little more, but other than that he was clearly the most powerful, even if he wasn't the strongest physically.

Character-wise, I absolutely agree. It's funny how after the Thor movie Marvel reverted him to the arrogant warrior prince shtick even though the character's moved on since then by now, and now in the movie he's moved on from that while the comic one is behind. I loved his conversation with Coulson about how Asgardians think of themselves as gods but they're just as bad, if not worse, than humans.

Power-wise...I dunno. While he didn't seem weak, per se, he just didn't seem to wow me as much as Tony, Hulk, Clint and Natasha. It's funny, my favorite characters in that movie were Steve and Thor, but neither of them really wowed me with their powers/abilities.

[Whiterabbit]

The current status quo for Thor is very terrible. Every reader should just point fingers at the writers and say, "You don't know what you're doing anymore, if you ever did know what you were doing."